Hi guys, further to my last post about the engine check light - I now think it's the head gasket that's gone.

I've only has one quote back and that's for £730, plus another £95 if it needs skimming down...

Is that right? Anyone else had a head gasket replaced, and if so what did you pay?

Alternatively, is it a job I could do myself?

First you need to tell us all the symptoms. An engine check light would not normally come on due to gasket failure.

In your previous post, you said that you may have run low on coolant. This is a very bad thing for a K Series, but does not automatically mean a gasket failure will result. What condition are your oil and coolant in? Is there any sign of dirty, light brown scum (mayonnaise)? If not, the chances are that all you have is a coolant leak. They are often very hard to track down and will not show up as water dripping on the floor.

The engine check light coming on is probably a separate issue, unless you have run the engine so hot that it has started to misfire.

The prices you have been quoted are around double the going rate!

Right, ok, symptoms....

There's no mayonnaise, but there is some water and a lot of white smoke (which I think is water vapour) coming from the back of the exhaust. The thermostat did go into the red the other day too on the drive home from work.

Oh, and sorry forgot to mention, the oil is still in good condition with no signs of any mayonnaise at all. The coolant is clear, which is a bit strange seeing as the coolant/antifreeze I use is blue...????

No, that's not a daft question, but yeah I've looked in the actual expansion tank itself and the coolant is clear.

Prices - the £730 was for replacing the head gasket, allegedly with the new "modified" head gasket that MG Rover designed you have to remove the oil sump, etc...??? So the job is more labour intensive and costs loads. I dunno if thats true.... anyone????

The £95 was just an additonal cost on top of the £730 if the it needed re-skimming.

It seems that you don't have any symptoms of head gasket failure, but you need to find that leak and get it sorted. You should have a 50% mixture of antifreeze in the system which would give it quite a strong colour. It sounds like your needs changing. It only lasts a few years.

As far as the engine check light. I would start by giving it a good service with a clean up of all the HT components, new plugs and leads.

The usual suspects for leaks are -

Pipes/hoses.
Radiator.
Filler cap.
Water pump.
Inlet manifold.

None of these will be obvious and may need a little stripping down to check. They won't jump out at you!

I always take reports of steamy exhaust with a pinch of salt. ;) It seems to be a very common "problem" with Rovers and they don't all have manifold gasket leaks.

I'm not sure exactly what can cause the engine check light to come on. I expect any number of fault code related faults would do it. If it is anything like the diagnostics systems, it will be unreliable. Start by making sure all the cheap and obvious things are in order before believing there is a deeper problem.

Hello again, thanks for all your input so far guys.

Right, I've driven home but now the check engine light is on permanently.

Also, re-checked the oil filler cap and dipstick and there are now small traces of mayonnaise appearing on the underside of the cap and on the end of the dipstick....

Does that now mean it's the head gasket?

Also, got another quote for £600 + VAT from a MG specialist garage in Horsham.... and that still seems like way over anything I'd expect to pay for a head gasket....

Traces of mayo are common if you do short trips. The real test is the colour of the oil itself. It should be turning from its original colour towards black, but still be transparent. If it is looking more like chocolate milkshake and is turning opaque, you have a problem.

A comprehensive head gasket job with new belt, tensioner, water pump etc is around £150 in parts plus about 5 hours labour. Don't pay more than £500 and make sure they include all the above.

It still doesn't sound like a failed gasket from what you have said so far. The belt cover needs to be removed to check the pump. The inlet manifold gasket needs replacing to establish if it is leaking internally. Fit a new filler cap, feel round all the pipe joints and the radiator.

We usually charge about £450, depends how much flushing it needs - oil in water is a pig to shift. I know people will disagree with me on this one but if it needs a skim then the head is scrap. I did a 4 day K-series course at the factory and apparantly the head face is heat treated to harden it. This is only a few microns thick & skimming takes this off leaving the head soft, as soon as you torque the head down the fire rings on the gasket dig in - I've seen it! The only chance then is the multilayer gasket as this has a shim on one side to compensate for poor head face condition.

if it needs a skim then the head is scrap......................

The only chance then is the multilayer gasket as this has a shim on one side to compensate for poor head face condition.

Yes, I agree. The only exception I have come across was due to handling damage.

I have asked the question about the MLS shim and have been told that they last longer, but a soft head will still fail.

hi i found a bloke on ebay quoting £300 for head gasket replacement claims to be rover trained and does job at home or work place might be worth looking

http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/uk/s.gifrovermad68 (http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/rovermad68/)
this is his name on ebay
It seems that you don't have any symptoms of head gasket failure, but you need to find that leak and get it sorted. You should have a 50% mixture of antifreeze in the system which would give it quite a strong colour. It sounds like your needs changing. It only lasts a few years.

As far as the engine check light. I would start by giving it a good service with a clean up of all the HT components, new plugs and leads.

The usual suspects for leaks are -

Pipes/hoses.
Radiator.
Filler cap.
Water pump.
Inlet manifold.

None of these will be obvious and may need a little stripping down to check. They won't jump out at you!

hi i found a bloke on ebay quoting £300 for head gasket replacement claims to be rover trained and does job at home or work place might be worth looking

http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/uk/s.gifrovermad68 (http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/rovermad68/)
this is his name on ebay

Funnily enough, I'd already contacted someone on ebay doing a similar thing called "land-roving-services" and he's based in the Midlands. He's quoted me £470 which sounds like a much fairer price if you ask me. So I might go for him.

He says he only uses genuine Land Rover parts (so I assume a decent gasket yeah???) and his work comes with a 12 month/12000 mile guarantee, take a look:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170203616716&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123

Traces of mayo are common if you do short trips. The real test is the colour of the oil itself. It should be turning from its original colour towards black, but still be transparent. If it is looking more like chocolate milkshake and is turning opaque, you have a problem.

Yeah, the oil is certainly looking more brown and sludgy, as opposed to black and transparent....

does the price include the water pump it doesnt mention it on ebay?

You're right it doesn't mention it, but when he replied to me through ebay he gave me his mobile number, so I'll call him in a bit and find out.

Does the water pump definitely need replacing at the sme time as the head gasket then?

well personally i think thats debatable, but most people do, it saves having to strip down again if it fails.
but its worth asking, see what he as to say.

Well, from what I remember of the service history I got with the car when I bought it last November, it had a head gasket replaced and a new water pump only about 18 months ago... unforunately I can't tell from the paperwork whether it was a good multi-layer gasket or an orignal Rover part... which would just fail again.

Well, just got the quote back from my local garage and they said £403 plus the VAT. That's with the timing belt too. They can book it in for Tuesday too, which is far sooner than anyone else I've tried.

I assume the first thing they're gonna do is pressure test it yeah, to definitely make sure it's the head gasket that's gone....

A pressure test will not confirm a head gasket failure unless it is totaly shot (which yours isn't). The only practical way is to observe the symptoms - yours doesn't seem to have any. Why are you so convinced that it has gasket failure?

Well, I think it's the HG that's gone due to these symptoms:

1) Losing lots of coolant, which is being chucked out the exhaust as a white smoke.

2) Mayonnaise starting to build up on the end of the oil level dipstick and on the underside of the oil filler cap.

3) Now, when idling, the engine is starting to misfire.

I thought those symptoms pretty much confirmed a HGF...???

A bit of mayonnaise is normal for this time of year unless you do fairly long trips that get the oil hot. The true test is the colour of the oil itself. It should be transparent and still the original colour, but turning black. If it is opaque and chocolate milkshake coloured, you have a gasket problem.

Coolant loss is nearly always due to a leak rather than gasket failure. If you are losing a significant amount through the gasket, you will find the oil level increasing, because that is where it will be going (unless it is an external leak). Coolant leaks through the gasket into the combustion chamber are rapidly accompanied by air locks in the system and boiling.

If you have running problems associated with the coolant loss, look to the inlet manifold gasket.

Ok then, thanks for your advice.

I'll tell them to look at the IMG first of all then... hopefully that'll be a bit cheaper than a new HG...

Yeah, £100 is a hell of a lot better than £400-500...!!!!

I'm now thinking it is the IMG, cos I've just checked the oil again and now there's hardly any signs of mayonnaise and it's looking black and translucent.... that's a good sign hopefully.

Right, so far, it's in the garage.

They've agreed with me (and you guys) that it's not looking like the HG, but more like the IMG. The guy also said the water pump is definitely leaking and the engine is running very lumpy.

Fingers crossed now then that a new water pump/IMG will solve the coolant problem...!!!

Hey Cult, seeming as your in Billingshurst, I assume you went to Harwoods in Five Oaks for a quote, where was the cheaper quote of £400 from?

Hi i wonder if someone can give me some advice ... is replacing the head gasket on a rover 416 sli with air con the same as replacing the head gasket on a rover 416 sli without air con , we got this 416 with the HG blown but the job was half done (IE: the head needed putting back on and everything done up etc also the car was brought to our house on a flatbed trailer) ok so after a week of moaning and griefing my friend (who did a successful job of my last 416 when the hg blew) he turns up today does the job does the timing to TDC get everything together engine flush in etc ,start the car and its running like crap, its lumpy and sounds and feels like a diesel which is fine if it was a diesel, please does anyone have any ideas what is wrong or what it could be im not worried if its a case of re doing it as i have another gasket set here and a head all skimmed but if its not something that drastic even better because kids are back at school monday and i need the car ive now been 3 weeks with no car and am starting to feel really depressed :( ... when my 416 with no air con in it had the head gasket done by the same friend we never had any of these problems please , please can someone help before i end up a bald lady through stress

Hi i wonder if someone can give me some advice ... is replacing the head gasket on a rover 416 sli with air con the same as replacing the head gasket on a rover 416 sli without air con , we got this 416 with the HG blown but the job was half done (IE: the head needed putting back on and everything done up etc also the car was brought to our house on a flatbed trailer) ok so after a week of moaning and griefing my friend (who did a successful job of my last 416 when the hg blew) he turns up today does the job does the timing to TDC get everything together engine flush in etc ,start the car and its running like crap, its lumpy and sounds and feels like a diesel which is fine if it was a diesel, please does anyone have any ideas what is wrong or what it could be im not worried if its a case of re doing it as i have another gasket set here and a head all skimmed but if its not something that drastic even better because kids are back at school monday and i need the car ive now been 3 weeks with no car and am starting to feel really depressed :( ... when my 416 with no air con in it had the head gasket done by the same friend we never had any of these problems please , please can someone help before i end up a bald lady through stress

Hey Cult, seeming as your in Billingshurst, I assume you went to Harwoods in Five Oaks for a quote, where was the cheaper quote of £400 from?

I didn't ask Harwoods for a quote actually, totally forgot about them to be honest, but I know they're supposed to be pretty reasonable. JOOI what are they charging then???

The cheaper quote was from a place called Billingshurst MOT right by the train station.

My local Rover specialist took the risk of putting their MOT gas checker in the coolant expansion tank air space - car was using water and steaming out the exhaust on occasions - gas tester picked up exhaust gas in the header = blown gasket, end of story

700 quid for a gasket swap/ new water pump / cam belt/ thermostat / and a couple of coolant pipes that were perishing - Rover 416 GSI ( honda SOHC lump)

Dr B

I didn't ask Harwoods for a quote actually, totally forgot about them to be honest, but I know they're supposed to be pretty reasonable. JOOI what are they charging then???

The cheaper quote was from a place called Billingshurst MOT right by the train station.

I dunno, I assumed when you said your local MGR garage I thought that was them. That MOT place, it's not the one where they do tyres etc, just near Tesco. Who else did you ask. Only Billi ones, or Horsham ones too?