View Full Version : MGF Head Gasket Problems
Just had the head gasket fail on our MGF at only 21000 miles.....the car is just 3 years and 2 months old (registered 27/04/01) and has always been main Rover dealer serviced.
After reading the reports on the BBC Watchdog website about problems with these steel head gaskets failing on the K-series engine I was wondering if anyone else had had similar problems, and also what success they had in getting MG Rover to carry out the repair free of charge ??
Have already contacted the MG Rover helpline.....but wondering if there is anything else we can do to try and avoid a £700+ bill (quoted by the main dealer).
The 2001 cars had the uprated head gasket's as standard.
The Watchdog report was complete rubbish that was blown out of all proportions.
The HG failure is usually the end result of something else failing (waterpump etc). If something like this wasn't the cause, then you have been unlucky.
Get the dealer to put your case to MGR as they will sometimes cover all/some dealer labour costs and any dealer supplied parts. You pay for any external costs though.
So you've read that slightly biased Watchdog report - OK, use the search feature and you're sure to find something along the lines of what you're after.
I think MG/R will not carry out the repair free of charge as it's out of warenty but I think on some occasions they've picked up the repair bill less the external cost which (Head skim and Pressure test) they've passed on to you, the owner.
Thanks for the replies.
I do find it hard to believe that in this day and age we have engines failing at 21,000 miles like this. As you say, it may be an external failure, but even so....surely that must be down to faulty components ??
I could have understood if the vehicle was poorly maintained or driven particularly hard....but neither of these is the case....
The first indication of any problem was steam coming out of the back end of the car.....no warning lights, no tempreature increase on the gauge !!! Fortunately we noticed and stopped (approx 100yds down the road from the dealership !!) so didn't do any excessive damage.
As for the Watchdog report, well the first i knew about that was at the weekend......but biased or not.....it does seem to suggest that there is a problem that needs to be addressed.
Also....I seem to recall that this particular car is a 2000 spec one that had been sat at the dealers for a while prior to our purchase.....so it probably doesn't have the modification that they carried out on the later ones. Again though I would suggest that if there wasn't a problem.....why did they carry out a modification ??
The problem is a very real one and it's something that puts allot of people off of owning an MG/Rover car.... Which is a shame in my opinion because the units are pretty much bullet proof apart from this failure and usually give tell tale signs of imminent failure. You've obviously just been one of the unlucky few as I know people with 216 Mk2 200's that have been to the moon and back without ever suffering HGF.
Many people will laugh and jeer when you tell them that you own a Rover and they all become honorary engineering degree holders when they tell you about the HGF issue. I'm not going to go in to it again as it's been discussed so many times before which is why I directed you towards the search feature. I wasn't meaning to come across tetchy or anything by it. ALL cars have service problems and some are far more serious than Rovers but it's an unfortunate stereotype that they've not been able to shift and I’m sure that if you're nice to your local dealer they'll do their best to help you out providing you don't start getting mardy and demanding things. Be thankful that you're not a BMW owner with NICASIL failure!
Mick
mikew7790
28-06-2004, 12:34
Slightly off topic so I apologise, but Rover really need to improve the indicator gauge/warning system IMO - perhaps a pressure sensor in the system to detect a sudden drop/increase/change in pressure, and more than one temp sensor. Between the two of these enhancements, anything out of the ordinary could be detected and the driver alerted that there is a problem.
Yes, I know all this adds cost - but reputation doesn't come cheap either.
<better get my asbestos suit ready lol>
Slightly off topic so I apologise, but Rover really need to improve the indicator gauge/warning system IMO - perhaps a pressure sensor in the system to detect a sudden drop/increase/change in pressure, and more than one temp sensor. Between the two of these enhancements, anything out of the ordinary could be detected and the driver alerted that there is a problem.
Yes, I know all this adds cost - but reputation doesn't come cheap either.
<better get my asbestos suit ready lol>
THREAD HIJACK WARNING !!
:_poke:
No flaming from me Mike as I totally agree with you. I don't think that the average "Joe Motorist" wants to be overwhelmed with dials, guages and flashing lights but what you've suggested would be a much anticipated improvement.
mikew7790
28-06-2004, 12:41
LOL
Wouldn't need any extra dials though - just keep the existing one (temp guage) and it becomes a 'health' indicator so to speak.. let the computer work out the actual state of the engine cooling system by analysing the feedback from the sensors.
Renault have something similar with their oil pressure guages on the sportier models like my birds R19 Exec. The pressure guage lights up and becomes an oil level guage when the key is turned to position 2 until you start the car when it reverts back to being the oil pressure guage. Simple but clever and it's amazingly accurate to which impresses hell out of me.
I'm sure Rover could bundle something together that would monitor pressure in the coolant system and flag up a MEMS Fault if it went either sky high or through the floor.
Getting slightly off topic here..... !!!
Ah...talking to the local dealer !!
They would be the ones that told me
a) They weren't aware of any problems
b) They couldn't deal with it.....I would have to talk direct to MG Rover
c) They didn't have MG Rover's contact details.....I would have to get them from the website.
Not what I would call good customer service.....
My annoyance was increased following my call this morning to the MG Rover helpline (number sourced from teh BBC Watchdog site !) to be told that all of their dealers ARE in fact aware of this issue and that they have procedures in place to deal with such issues.
On the plus side...I did find the Helpline staff to be extremely polite and helpful....unlike the service manager at the Delership in question.
perhaps a pressure sensor in the system to detect a sudden drop/increase/change in pressure, and more than one temp sensor.
The new ZS has a coolant level warning light now.
mikew7790
28-06-2004, 12:57
Renault have something similar with their oil pressure guages on the sportier models like my birds R19 Exec. The pressure guage lights up and becomes an oil level guage when the key is turned to position 2 until you start the car when it reverts back to being the oil pressure guage. Simple but clever and it's amazingly accurate to which impresses hell out of me.
I'm sure Rover could bundle something together that would monitor pressure in the coolant system and flag up a MEMS Fault if it went either sky high or through the floor.
Yep, and even if the temp went outside of expected limits - just like the ECU already does with every other sensor!
In fact, in one of my more entreprenueruryuryly (sorry spelling) moments I was thinking you could do this as an aftermarket kit and reckon you could do it reasonably cheaply - if anyones interested.
PS good cars reno's - my g/f has the Megane RXi 1.4 - well nippy, bags of features and fun to drive too! Wouldn't let her know that though :D
Getting slightly off topic here..... !!!
Ah...talking to the local dealer !!
They would be the ones that told me
a) They weren't aware of any problems
b) They couldn't deal with it.....I would have to talk direct to MG Rover
c) They didn't have MG Rover's contact details.....I would have to get them from the website.
Not what I would call good customer service.....
My annoyance was increased following my call this morning to the MG Rover helpline (number sourced from teh BBC Watchdog site !) to be told that all of their dealers ARE in fact aware of this issue and that they have procedures in place to deal with such issues.
On the plus side...I did find the Helpline staff to be extremely polite and helpful....unlike the service manager at the Delership in question.
OMG - I'm so sorry to hear this. Unfortunatly the decision to repair the car for free or 50/50 etc rests with the dealership that sold you the car rather than MG/R as a company. It's a silly way to do things I think but that's the way things are as i found out on my Mk4 Astra and a service issue at my local Vauxhall garage. I think you've earned the right to be ****** with them for trying to dazzle you with bull**** especially when they claimed to be unaware of any issues pertaining to the coolant system contributing to HGF! I've got a copy of the MG/R RAVE CD dated 2001 and I know for a fact that it's mentioned in the Technical Bulletin section from back then! You could maybe take it to another main dealer for another opinion but I don't thinkthat will resolve the issue. You'd be better off applying some assertive negociation skills on the Service Manager and use the fact that you've been told rubbish as leverage... also, keep in touch with MG/R and try to get names.
I'm sure someone on here had a really bad deal with a ZR that came from Arnold Clarkes and MG/R stepped in but what the outcome was I can't remember.
If you're around the Notitngham area i'll gladly point you in the direction of a cracking main dealer (PLUG TIME - PRIORY ROVER, Daybrook, Nottingham) or i'd even offer my services as i've done a fair few HGF's on Rovers and Elises alike and I charge a hell of a lot less than they do but I doubt these offers will be of any use to you. Stick to your guns and don't loose it with them no matter how much you might want to punch the twenty something year old smarmy gits face in. It won't help you in the long run :fim:
Mick
Mike - Yes, I also have to agree with you that the Renault... despite being FRENCH are actually cracking motors. The birds R19 is an amazing spec, handles like a go kart and was recently rolling roaded at 148bhp (115 at the wheels) and that's from a standard 1.8 16v, F7P engine. We''retrying to find an F4R VVT unit to go in from a Clio Cup but finding one in a scrap yard is prooving difficult as they don't tend to reverse in to lorries :naughty:
SHARKYMGF
28-06-2004, 13:19
The HG failure is usually the end result of something else failing (waterpump etc). If something like this wasn't the cause, then you have been unlucky.
Its important you remember what Stu said. The chance of the HG actually being the cause of the HGF is very unlikely. The important thing is to discover what caused the failure, so it can be rectified, else it could lead to a subsequent failure of the repaired HG.
IMO you have a strong case for getting at least some contribution from MGR as you can prove the car was serviced to their recommendations, so if a component has failed, could it or should it have been replaced/identified at the last service?
IMO you should also report your dealer to MGR customer service, and if possible try and find an alternative dealers as this lot sound like a bunch of clowns.
Although I wouldn't expect them to tell you its a frequent problem, I would have at least expected them to contact MGR to establish if MGR would be willing to contribute to the repair costs.
You've obviously just been one of the unlucky few as I know people with 216 Mk2 200's that have been to the moon and back without ever suffering HGF.
Mick
Don't want to sound pedantic but if it's a mark II 216 then it's a Honda engine. D series I think. That would explain the massive mileage with no problem.
Anthony.
[QUOTE=MicKPM]OMG - I'm so sorry to hear this. Unfortunatly the decision to repair the car for free or 50/50 etc rests with the dealership that sold you the car rather than MG/R as a company. It's a silly way to do things I think but that's the way things are as i found out on my Mk4 Astra and a service issue at my local Vauxhall garage. [QUOTE]
It has nothing to do with who sold you the car.... this might be a Vauxhall trick, but the warrenty is with the "Dealer Network / MGR" and not a specific dealer....
The dealer that sold me my car closed... doesn't affect the warrenty at all!
Believe all the new K engined 25s , 45s , ZRs and ZSs have a coolant level indicator now . Anyone any idea how this works ?
Scarlet Fever
28-06-2004, 13:50
Just had the head gasket fail on our MGF at only 21000 miles.....the car is just 3 years and 2 months old (registered 27/04/01) and has always been main Rover dealer serviced.
Sounds to me like you have just had a service then. My money is on a poorly carried out coolant change, either they have simply topped up the coolant in the past rather than replacing it fully (leading to electrolytic corrosion on the head gasket) or, more likely, they didn't bleed the system properly after the most recent service and this has resulted in trapped air bubbles in the system. These air bubbles become hot spots on the gasket and this leads to failure.
Whlie it is very difficult to prove the latter, the former will be noticable on the head gasket and this is evidence against the dealership. They should come clean and help you out here in my opinion, as it is looking probable that they were at least partially responsible for the failure.
Well that's obviously not the case Anthony - I do know the differance between a K16 and a D16 and believe me I have seen Mk2's running the K16. Not that i'm wanting to start an argument here but just wanting to set that straight and we're going off topic now.
Sounds to me like you have just had a service then. My money is on a poorly carried out coolant change, either they have simply topped up the coolant in the past rather than replacing it fully (leading to electrolytic corrosion on the head gasket) or, more likely, they didn't bleed the system properly after the most recent service and this has resulted in trapped air bubbles in the system. These air bubbles become hot spots on the gasket and this leads to failure.
Interesting point that ! You are correct in that the car was in fact serviced (by the same dealership) just a couple of months ago......nicely in time for its first MOT.
Unfortunately, given that they have already stripped off the head....ostensibly to investigate the problem.....I doubt that there is goign to be any way that I can get to inspect the old head gasket. Combined with their previous intent to try and mislead me....I don't for a minute expect them to "come clean" about anything.
Well that's obviously not the case Anthony
All MKII 216's would have been the Honda D series engine I believe. Easily identifiable by it being the other way around to the K series. 1.4's will have been K series though.
Good point about the coolant change Scarlet. Will have been at the 24k 2 year service.
What was on the service invoice? Anything relating to a coolant change or antifreeze top up?
All MKII 216's would have been the Honda D series engine I believe. Easily identifiable by it being the other way around to the K series. 1.4's will have been K series though.
Not strictly true . Later 216 coupes and cabbys will have the 1.6K (and the 400 tourer)
Wouldn't really class the Coupe as a straight MkII though and the 400 is definately not a MkII 200. But yes there was a variant of the 200 with a K.
But yes, the D series was dropped in 95/96 to be replaced by a 1.6 K series. By this point the MkIII 200 (bubble) was out.
Thanks for all the replies and suggestions guys.
Just to complete the picture here.....my call to MG Rover yesterday morning obviously did the trick. We had a phone call yesterday afternoon to say that the car was ready for collection....having had the head gasket replaced and all of the associated work done courtesy of MG Rover.
rjessett
29-06-2004, 09:40
Thanks for all the replies and suggestions guys.
Just to complete the picture here.....my call to MG Rover yesterday morning obviously did the trick. We had a phone call yesterday afternoon to say that the car was ready for collection....having had the head gasket replaced and all of the associated work done courtesy of MG Rover.
Excellent result!
Just shows that its some of the dealers giving MGR a bad name. I dare say if MGR had not have stepped in, you would be put off the marque for life. This must of happened to several other people who have not thought to contact MGR
Nice result.
Shows the benefit of MGR service history.
If you've got a full dealer history, it's upto them to ensure it's done to schedule... not you!...
You might fall into a trap, because about 2 year ago the Service sheet said EVERY 2 YRS for Coolant ONLY, and they changed this to 2 yrs / 30k. If you had your 30k service at say 18months they'd not have done the coolant, and then at 45k they'd not do it, because it's now a 30k / 60k item... easily missed... but I guarantee the coolant change (or lack of) should NOT have caused this...
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