http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MG-6-GT-1-8-Turbo-S-5dr-12500-/220885152404?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item336dc7f294

£12500 brand new 0!!!! miles wow!! :O

The dealer must be getting desperate to make some sales as there can't be much mark up left for the dealer at that price - especially if someone were to pay the full £12500 outright.

Great deal for someone who's after one of these as this is much better than what any other dealer has offered. If sales continue to slump then I imagine a few others will follow suit which may be good for buyers but not for dealers or MG/SAIC.

It does look like a decent offer & I like 'em in red.

There's a burnt orange TSE in Olneys MK for £16,900 with 0 miles and an SE for £16,500 ish so they're coming down at last.

It's quite an offer but if it becomes a trend then residuals will suffer badly, feel sorry for a dealer forced into this position though.

It's quite an offer but if it becomes a trend then residuals will suffer badly, feel sorry for a dealer forced into this position though.

its a shame,but no different to waht ford and vauxhall dealers do everyday with their stock.....my father in law just visited a local dealer about a new astra and came out with a 15k list 1.4 sri for less than twelve grand.....

mind you,i have despatched him to our local mg dealer to buy a proper car instead for the same dosh.

he only does 6000 miles a year so fuel and slightly higher exise license cost will be offset by the cheap insurance plus he gets the bigger car that he would prefer....

personally,ill be interested when the mg6 tse reaches £10k...

simple people wrong engine wrong time........

i think it was just a case of mg giving mg enthusiasts something early rather than nothing at all....they know that its needs a small capacity petrol engine and diesel to sell in numbers and the mg3,5 and 7 are in the pipeline with those options

to my mind the 1.8 mg6 was a taster of the handling ride package to come on the more saleable mg's....i honestly dont think that mg thought that this version of the 6 was going to be a big seller here and wont be bothered it hasnt sold many........the point was getting something onto the market.

I bet there will be a few 6 owners feeling sick as a parrot now... Watch those residuals collapse like the Renault dealer network.
Another 3k lost overnight.

like i said...no worse than any focus or astra new from a dealer!

I bet there will be a few 6 owners feeling sick as a parrot now... Watch those residuals collapse like the Renault dealer network.
Another 3k lost overnight.

It's a kick in the teeth to them however I'm sure they knew the risks when they bought the car. If this trend was to follow it's not going to do the dealer network much good unless offcourse MG drop their price to the dealer which IMO they should.

I think the £12.5k is a realistic price for the base model and top spec model should follow and be no more than £16k. £19k is way too much for a unknown car/manufacturer to demand in a new marketplace.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MG-6-GT-1-8-Turbo-S-5dr-12500-/220885152404?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item336dc7f294

£12500 brand new 0!!!! miles wow!! :O
Only problem is that as it was a "Pre Christmas SALE", nobody will actually be able to buy it at that price...

Only problem is that as it was a "Pre Christmas SALE", nobody will actually be able to buy it at that price...

I bet they'd still sell at that price if you went in and waved the monies ;)

Only problem is that as it was a "Pre Christmas SALE", nobody will actually be able to buy it at that price...

Slightly more but a current offer.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2884345.htm

i posted about that car 8 days ago. the fact that it is still there says a lot. i am waiting for it to drop to £9995 and then might offer £9495 to see if they bite.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201147431203052/sort/priceasc/usedcars/make/mg_motor_uk/page/4/radius/1501/quicksearch/true/postcode/ca30qz?logcode=p&awc=3693_1324931025_92159ed1a7dd35a24bb780d504fffe ea

i think it was just a case of mg giving mg enthusiasts something early rather than nothing at all....they know that its needs a small capacity petrol engine and diesel to sell in numbers and the mg3,5 and 7 are in the pipeline with those options

to my mind the 1.8 mg6 was a taster of the handling ride package to come on the more saleable mg's....i honestly dont think that mg thought that this version of the 6 was going to be a big seller here and wont be bothered it hasnt sold many........the point was getting something onto the market.

I worry a bit that it may be the other way round and that the MG6, as the first offering, was intended to be the halo model which consumers would aspire to before more mundane products came from China. That said, maybe 'mundane' equals sensible ownership package these days and more sales.

i posted about that car 8 days ago. the fact that it is still there says a lot. i am waiting for it to drop to £9995 and then might offer £9495 to see if they bite.
I think they had more than one it is just the same picture.

Good deal on the S model, but from what I have been told most prospective buyers are going for the SE or TSE model.

Deals this time of the year are not unusual a new base model Skoda Octavia can be had for £10995 and the out going BMW 1 series for just £16995, as I said before tough Market for car manufacturers but good news for the consumer!

I think they had more than one it is just the same picture.

Good deal on the S model, but from what I have been told most prospective buyers are going for the SE or TSE model.

Deals this time of the year are not unusual a new base model Skoda Octavia can be had for £10995 and the out going BMW 1 series for just £16995, as I said before tough Market for car manufacturers but good news for the consumer!

i'd take a tse for £12k.

i'd take a tse for £12k.

Probably get a year old in a couple months for this figure!

I think the price quoted includes a minimum value trade-in.

They should have been selling the base model at that price in the first place!
but for me they can price the mg 6 at whatever they want but I won't be buying one till they put a decent engine in it!

i think it was just a case of mg giving mg enthusiasts something early rather than nothing at all....they know that its needs a small capacity petrol engine and diesel to sell in numbers and the mg3,5 and 7 are in the pipeline with those options

to my mind the 1.8 mg6 was a taster of the handling ride package to come on the more saleable mg's....i honestly dont think that mg thought that this version of the 6 was going to be a big seller here and wont be bothered it hasnt sold many........the point was getting something onto the market.

I disagree.

It needs factory-fitted LPG just like Proton offer on their new cars.

Definately, a 1.8T with a factory fitted LPG system would sell pretty well to enthusiasts, especially if they could do it in such a way that very little boot space was lost.

You'd still be looking at sub-9 seconds to 62mph and getting the equivalent of about 60mpg when you factor in the fuel price difference.

The only concern is how long LPG is going to be subsidised, as the dual fuel tax reduction has disappeared now hasn't it?

MG6 is STILL the best value for money out in the market place! If you compare new with new (not pre-reg or 6 months old etc) then nothing touches it. YES-we'd like diesel. YES-we'd like £0 road tax. YES-we'd like 70mpg. What we have got is a great ride and drive, with 32.4mpg (actual figure over 7000 different driven miles) for a very reasonable price. Most MG dealers are suffering right now (like most other dealers!) and so that's why you're seeing such tremendous offers. The "S" is a great spec for the price and YES it is possible to buy at under £13k right now, yet the TSE seems to be the model that everyone wants-who can blame them when you get everything but a "cuddly toy" :) for under £20k? I'm currently MG's top selling dealer in the UK and I'm happy to do a keen deal on mg-rover.org to anyone who wants one?

MG6 is STILL the best value for money out in the market place! If you compare new with new (not pre-reg or 6 months old etc) then nothing touches it. YES-we'd like diesel. YES-we'd like £0 road tax. YES-we'd like 70mpg. What we have got is a great ride and drive, with 32.4mpg (actual figure over 7000 different driven miles) for a very reasonable price. Most MG dealers are suffering right now (like most other dealers!) and so that's why you're seeing such tremendous offers. The "S" is a great spec for the price and YES it is possible to buy at under £13k right now, yet the TSE seems to be the model that everyone wants-who can blame them when you get everything but a "cuddly toy" :) for under £20k? I'm currently MG's top selling dealer in the UK and I'm happy to do a keen deal on mg-rover.org to anyone who wants one?

Good to hear your currently MG's top selling dealer especially as your a family run business. Just had a look on your website and saw your introduction.

Just goes to show that with enthusiasm for the brand what can be achieved and makes a mockery of the mainstream dealers.

Ok I love my 2mg's, owned mgs for 10 years and I want mg to do well as much as everyone else,
however can the people who keep saying it's the best value car on the Market please explain further!
Because I seem to be missing something here! And am not seeing the mg6 as the best value for the £16000-£20000 that is it's Manufactors OTR price

Ok I love my 2mg's, owned mgs for 10 years and I want mg to do well as much as everyone else,
however can the people who keep saying it's the best value car on the Market please explain further!
Because I seem to be missing something here! And am not seeing the mg6 as the best value for the £16000-£20000 that is it's Manufactors OTR price

I will simply reply to this question by asking why don,t you see it as good value?

When u go to ford, vauxhall, renault etc, u get to choose from a wide range of engines, trim and optional extras from there similar sized cars!
Starting From around £12500!
With MG u get 1 engine and 3 trim models for each of the 2 types of 6 plus options!
From £15500-£20000

My point is can u really NOT get a similar car from the other Manufactors with the same spec, sized engine, tax and MPG for the same price or better?

I think given it's basically Chinese built the UK selling price must be a huge mark up and as greedy as the CityRover pricing.

I think the issue is that the car has been priced to compete with perceived competition from Ford Vauxhall etc instead of being priced to compete in it's own right.

Geeley are bringing in a range of new cars with a Focus competitor under £10k. I suspect given this sale price the car is being built in china fir around £5k so this gives them a comfortable margin and a bargain for the buyer to boot.

When the 3 appears it will more likely be another bolt the engine in and fit the wheels like the 6 so again is essentially Chinese built. This car should be aimed at £6-8k to undercut the fiesta and Corsa but again I suspect greed will mean we are looking at an £8-11k car pitched at ford and GM pricing.

They wonder why cars aren't selling :(

Well Forehead as you know everything and know what MG and SAIC are doing wrong why don't you go and work for them and tell them what they are doing wrong, I'm sure a man of your calibre can sort it all out in no time at all.

Simon

I certainly couldn't do any worse a job than the people trying to run it now.

I suppose when you view the world through open eyes it does make things a little clearer.

Tried it recently?

I certainly couldn't do any worse a job than the people trying to run it now.

I suppose when you view the world through open eyes it does make things a little clearer.

Tried it recently?

I have my eyes very much open thank you Forehead, but I don't have an obsession with rubbishing everything that MG UK do unlike you, as I have said many times before, your purpose is to troll every thread as you are doing spouting bile, even after the recent announcement about the constant negativity regarding the subject, your views are far from constructive criticism, you live to flame every thread and annoy everyone else who likes the new MG's, not everyone cares as much as you do, you have a very big chip on your shoulder about MG, but everyone else does not have to share your views.

It's amazing how much you know about everything. But I can't say I like a new MG because as soon as I do someone like you comes along accusing me of having rose tinted specs on, it is an MG enthusiasts forum, most people are going to pro MG old or new simple as that.

And no matter how much you rubbish every car or decision by MG you won't change people's opinions we all are very capable of making our own.

I for one and suspect many more are fed up with seeing your name appearing in every new MG thread constantly being negative about everything all the time.

Simon

Its funny how a different point of view automatically becomes negative.

I do not post negative comments and never do - read my posts properly they are ideas not personal snipes as you invariably seem to post.

I despair of the current running of MG because it comes across as being so disinterested in the UK.

Many people are working very hard in the UK to make a go of this and at every turn they appear to be knocked back by an owner that has little or no interest in the UK succeeding.

I will always offer another point of view because that is how I look at any situation. I am not a team player and never will be. You can buddy up to the luvvies and agree with what they say but when they are wrong I will and do disagree.

Post your own comments and make your own suggestions and I will agree or disagree with those but I wont come back and whinge because we dont share the same ideas.

Trolling hmnm I call it freedom of expression and a right to give ones own point of view. If you dont like that you can always join one of the chinese websites where its tow the line or get arrested.

Its funny how a different point of view automatically becomes negative.

I do not post negative comments and never do - read my posts properly they are ideas not personal snipes as you invariably seem to post.

I despair of the current running of MG because it comes across as being so disinterested in the UK.

Many people are working very hard in the UK to make a go of this and at every turn they appear to be knocked back by an owner that has little or no interest in the UK succeeding.

I will always offer another point of view because that is how I look at any situation. I am not a team player and never will be. You can buddy up to the luvvies and agree with what they say but when they are wrong I will and do disagree.

Post your own comments and make your own suggestions and I will agree or disagree with those but I wont come back and whinge because we dont share the same ideas.

Trolling hmnm I call it freedom of expression and a right to give ones own point of view. If you dont like that you can always join one of the chinese websites where its tow the line or get arrested.

At the end of the day, this is an enthusiasts website and just because you, for example, don't like the MG6 does not give you the right to constantly reply to threads in the MG6 forum saying where MG have gone wrong and why you think the MG6 sucks.

Fine, you think it sucks? That's perfectly fine, just don't keep throwing it people's faces when they're trying to be enthusiastic about it, just because you are not, does not give you the god given right to wind other members up and generally be disruptive.


I suggest that you read this part of Steve's recent announcemnet then, the forums has rules that we all have to try to abide to, if we don't like them then we are free to leave of our own accord.

Simon

I think the fact that Forehead is here and still posting speaks volumes about how he conducts his self.
I disagree with some things he says, but strongly agree with others.
Isn't it funny how the only people attacking him and calling him names are the few ones who post on CCT and other highly pro Chinese owned MG forums?
I think it shows his attackers to have their own agenda in trying to stamp out on free speach and opinions on this site.
And lets be honest, that is the job of the mods and the site owner, not a few posters who are quite probably being leant on by the new MG people.
His posts are non personal, well thought out and very necessary in what is after all, a very contentious issue.

I think the fact that Forehead is here and still posting speaks volumes about how he conducts his self.
I disagree with some things he says, but strongly agree with others.
Isn't it funny how the only people attacking him and calling him names are the few ones who post on CCT and other highly pro Chinese owned MG forums?
I think it shows his attackers to have their own agenda in trying to stamp out on free speach and opinions on this site.
And lets be honest, that is the job of the mods and the site owner, not a few posters who are quite probably being leant on by the new MG people.
His posts are non personal, well thought out and very necessary in what is after all, a very contentious issue.

I have no affiliation with MG UK, SAIC, NAC, Steve Childs, CCT or anything else, yet I still find Foreheads posts very irritating, this is about the only forum I actually have any involvement in so that kind of blows that statement out the water.

Simon

I can boast the same thing. I came to this forum originally when I bought my last Rover and lost count of the help and advice I found here regarding it.

Reading the posts it became obvious for the most part the guys here are intelligent and have their own views and opnions and in taking part in some of the debates became hooked.

I post here simply because I get responses from other posters who have knowledge and experience of the subjects being discussed. If my motives were simply to stir or troll Id have left years ago.

I have lost count of the times friends or customers asking for help regarding their car have been pointed in the way of this site and the number who have come away with the answers they were looking for.

Think what you will Simon - when the resumption of production at Longbridge restarted i like many others saw it only as a way of bringing work back to the area I live in, giving some of the people who lost their jobs a chance at getting back into the industry and away from the dead end jobs they were forced to take.

That is all I want to see from Longbridge and all I ever have wanted - the cars are a means to an end nothing more.

Think what you will Simon - when the resumption of production at Longbridge restarted i like many others saw it only as a way of bringing work back to the area I live in, giving some of the people who lost their jobs a chance at getting back into the industry and away from the dead end jobs they were forced to take.

That is all I want to see from Longbridge and all I ever have wanted - the cars are a means to an end nothing more.

So you really think the constant criticism of MG and everything it is doing by people like you and the many other comments I have seen that are resentful of the chinese ownership etc is in anyway helping to keep those currently employed and ensuring the brand grows in the Uk and employs more people. The attitude that most of the general Uk public have needs to be changed if MG UK are to grow and employ more people but people won't give them a chance.

Anyway I'm getting bored now with arguing with you.

Simon

And the only way that will change is if they stop ******* about with our heritage and actually get serious about building a decent car range in the UK that is well built, competitively priced with a good warantee and a real comitment to UK manufacturing.
Until then, they are a shabby third rate disgrace trading on a looted name.

how about some advertising ? - mg6, the invisible car

how about a headline grabbing price ? - £11,995 maximum

how about a decent overall package ? subsidised or free service package, 0% finance etc..

how about all the people praising the car to high heavens buying one ?


we can't have a new car company with a single model with a single engine expecting big sales with none of the above.


i bet avis got a cheap deal.

My point is can u really NOT get a similar car from the other Manufactors with the same spec, sized engine, tax and MPG for the same price or better?

Simple answer is NO. The only option on the Magnette TSE is metallic paint, it comes with leather, 18 inch alloys plus the main part ride and handling that are superb.

I narrowed it down to 3 cars , a BMW 1 series, a Peugeot 308cc and an MG6, I chose a Magnette.

If you are interested in one take a test drive, then go out in vehicle that is of a similar value then make your mind up.

Surely the cost of building the car 80-90% in China must save them alot in parts/labour than if it were 100% UK built. If it's not saving them much then does that mean if it were 100% built in the UK would the OTR price be a couple of grand more?

I work in shipping and have imported cars before - the extra cost for shipping and importing a car from China would be between 7-10% of the OTR price. This includes the duty which is normally 10% of the manufacturers cost for building the car but as MG don't import 100% complete cars they will be entitled to a preferential rate of duty.

I just don't understand why SAIC don't fully assemble them in China as it would cut out the cost for minimal final assembly at LB and perhaps allow them to target a more competitive OTR price.

And the only way that will change is if they stop ******* about with our heritage and actually get serious about building a decent car range in the UK that is well built, competitively priced with a good warantee and a real comitment to UK manufacturing.
Until then, they are a shabby third rate disgrace trading on a looted name.
Funny you should say that as a friend of mine thinks that every MG built after 1980 have just been crap cars that are not worthy of the MG name.

Surely the cost of building the car 80-90% in China must save them alot in parts/labour than if it were 100% UK built. If it's not saving them much then does that mean if it were 100% built in the UK would the OTR price be a couple of grand more?

I work in shipping and have imported cars before - the extra cost for shipping and importing a car from China would be between 7-10% of the OTR price. This includes the duty which is normally 10% of the manufacturers cost for building the car but as MG don't import 100% complete cars they will be entitled to a preferential rate of duty.

I just don't understand why SAIC don't fully assemble them in China as it would cut out the cost for minimal final assembly at LB and perhaps allow them to target a more competitive OTR price..

I am typing these posts on an Apple iPad that is 100% built in china , why does it have a list price that starts at £400 , surely they should be less?

.

I am typing these posts on an Apple iPad that is 100% built in china , why does it have a list price that starts at £400 , surely they should be less?

It should be less but this is why they are now the world's 3rd wealthiest company.

Also, congrats on your new baby boy - hope mother and son (& dad offcourse) are doing just fine.

It should be less but this is why they are now the world's 3rd wealthiest company.

Also, congrats on your new baby boy - hope mother and son (& dad offcourse) are doing just fine.

Thanks, Aaron was a month premature and only weighed 4.5lb Sue and baby are fine

Thanks, Aaron was a month premature and only weighed 4.5lb Sue and baby are fine

I'm sure he'll be fine, I was a month early myself, in fact it's probably the only time I've been early for anything. :lol:

He is feeding well and is already putting weight on , he has been able to breath without assistance so all is good thanks

Surely the cost of building the car 80-90% in China must save them alot in parts/labour than if it were 100% UK built.
I don't understand this ^

How could building in China save them a lot of parts? It will need the same parts wherever it is built :confused:

How could building in China save them a lot of labour? It will need the same amount of labour wherever it is built :confused:

The part of the car built in China is built there because that is where the robots are, the robots cost much the same which ever country they work in but since most MG6s are sold in China, having the robots in China reduces transport costs.

The assembly of the UK car by British workers is done in Britain because it is a British car from a British brand that is assembled in Britain. The difference in labour costs between China and Britain is not very big these days and rapidly reducing.

When u go to ford, vauxhall, renault etc, u get to choose from a wide range of engines, trim and optional extras from there similar sized cars!
Starting From around £12500!
With MG u get 1 engine and 3 trim models for each of the 2 types of 6 plus options!
From £15500-£20000

My point is can u really NOT get a similar car from the other Manufactors with the same spec, sized engine, tax and MPG for the same price or better?

How much Focus, Astra, Megane etc do you get for the 'starting from' figure of £12,500? How much more do you need to spend to get something decent? How does that decent model compare to the MG6 in terms of price and spec?

According to the car configuration tool on ford.co.uk, the new Focus starts at £13,995, and that gets you an 85 PS 1.6 petrol engine in Studio trim, which gives you pretty much nothing. The base price for the Titanium X (125bhp 1.6 turbo) is £21,495 before you spec anything. So comparing list prices you seem to get more car for your money with the MG6 on paper.

Of course most manufacturers seem to be offering huge discounts from the list price, either direct or via car supermarkets, but they seem to always be the poverty spec cars they've got in stock and aren't shifting. I doubt you'd get a comparable discount on a top spec model that had to be custom ordered, though I'm willing to be proven wrong.

I don't understand this ^

How could building in China save them a lot of parts? It will need the same parts wherever it is built :confused:

How could building in China save them a lot of labour? It will need the same amount of labour wherever it is built :confused:

The part of the car built in China is built there because that is where the robots are, the robots cost much the same which ever country they work in but since most MG6s are sold in China, having the robots in China reduces transport costs.

The assembly of the UK car by British workers is done in Britain because it is a British car from a British brand that is assembled in Britain. The difference in labour costs between China and Britain is not very big these days and rapidly reducing.

The labour rate in China is much cheaper, so whilst the man hour requirements are the same, if they are only costing half of the wages you're saving half of the wages. Even if it's done by robot there will still need to be support staff (technicians, cleaners, warehousing and so on).

like i said...no worse than any focus or astra new from a dealer!

Correct!

Anyone who pays full list for any new car is asking for a severe kick in the wallet.

When I visit my local MG-R XPart parts supplier, which happens to be the main Ford Dealership in Gloucester, some of the offers on new stuff are surprising. I strongly suspect the same applies to most, probably all the main volume car producers, particularly in the current financial state of this Nation and elsewhere.

I wonder how generous a P/X offer would be against these discounted MG6s. There again, would even further discount be available without a part exchange. I supect the margins are there.
..

I don't understand this ^

How could building in China save them a lot of parts? It will need the same parts wherever it is built :confused:

How could building in China save them a lot of labour? It will need the same amount of labour wherever it is built :confused:

The part of the car built in China is built there because that is where the robots are, the robots cost much the same which ever country they work in but since most MG6s are sold in China, having the robots in China reduces transport costs.

The assembly of the UK car by British workers is done in Britain because it is a British car from a British brand that is assembled in Britain. The difference in labour costs between China and Britain is not very big these days and rapidly reducing.

I'm guessing he means the parts are cheaper if made in China as opposed to UK suppliers and labour is cheaper than UK...

I just don't understand why SAIC don't fully assemble them in China as it would cut out the cost for minimal final assembly at LB and perhaps allow them to target a more competitive OTR price.

Most people probably wouldnt care, but the MG6 has a UK Chassis number code, so is classed as a British made product. So this will i guess count towards Uk production figures and other stats

Also if something is launched as a cheap product, it is very hard to raise the percieved value of the product or company afterwards. Say MG launched the MG6 at 13 grand, then if they started production of a wholly UK built replacement, they would find it almost impossible to sell it at a retail price of say 19 grand.

I have driven the MG6 at the factory show room and tbh i think the product is good, and the price when compared to the rivals isnt too extortionate, definately less than the equivalent Mondeo or even Focus.

its just the total joke that is the sales and marketing department that is spoiling it all in my mind, and the fact that we dont really know when the diesel is coming, possibly sooner than we think.....

I'm guessing he means the parts are cheaper if made in China as opposed to UK suppliers and labour is cheaper than UK...

The alloy wheels on the MG6 TSE are made in the UK by Rimstock, other componets are sourced from Valeo, Bosch etc so SAIC will be paying the same for these components as the likes of Ford, GM etc

I was parked in the hospital car park and someone asked me about the Magnette , he owned a 3 year old Audi A4 S Line and was thinking of changing it for an Magnette due to it;s competitive pricing !

Audi A4 S line is in excess of £28K for the same spec, and after 3 years would be have lost nearly the list price of an MG 6 GT!

I don't understand this ^

How could building in China save them a lot of parts? It will need the same parts wherever it is built :confused:

How could building in China save them a lot of labour? It will need the same amount of labour wherever it is built :confused:

The part of the car built in China is built there because that is where the robots are, the robots cost much the same which ever country they work in but since most MG6s are sold in China, having the robots in China reduces transport costs.

I said "Surely the cost of building the car 80-90% in China must save them alot in parts/labour than if it were 100% UK built."

Perhaps I should have said "Surely the cost of building the car 80-90% in China must save them alot in parts/labour cost than if it were 100% UK built."

Even I know the same amount of labour & parts are need where ever a car is built - just that the manufacturing costs differ.

So if it isn't any cheaper to build them in China, why the ****ting **** did they kick Longbridge and the UK in the balls by ripping the factory apart and shipping everything off to China instead?

I said "Surely the cost of building the car 80-90% in China must save them alot in parts/labour than if it were 100% UK built."

Perhaps I should have said "Surely the cost of building the car 80-90% in China must save them alot in parts/labour cost than if it were 100% UK built."

Even I know the same amount of labour & parts are need where ever a car is built - just that the manufacturing costs differ.
Is a German sourced part cheaper in China or the UK? - I suspect the UK...

Is a British sourced part (eg the wheels) cheaper in the China or the UK? - I suspect the UK.

Is a Chinese sourced part (eg the ABS (from a German owned company)) cheaper in China or the UK? - I don't know and wouldn't like to bet either way!

Is Chinese labour cheaper than UK labour? It used to be Chinese but salaries have increased considerably in China and decreased in the UK, it is still Chinese that is cheaper but when you take into account the ease of removing unrequired jobs etc in the UK I don't think there is much in it these days!

So if it isn't any cheaper to build them in China, why the ****ting **** did they kick Longbridge and the UK in the balls by ripping the factory apart and shipping everything off to China instead?

Because they are looking after No.1. :simples:

Just like BMW and all the other alien controllers and owners of the former G and P's numerous family silver items have and will continue to do.

Meantime, that hasn't stopped a certain Nation forming queues for decades to pay over the odds for foreign sourced product whilst pleased to dance on the graves of the former Rover Group and all the others laid to waste by a Nation and those we entrust for its well being hell bent on getting so many things quite simply ... wrong.

Clarkson doesn't like MGs and Rovers so they must be inferior... stands to reason... not all, but most "Brits do that". Just maybe you are one of the many others who do not believe in such negative influences. Then there's the widespread problem.

It is not a coincidence or simply bad luck the way things are in the former.... not by a long chalk.
.

Because they are looking after No.1. :simples:


There is a second good reason - the import taxes for importing foreign built cars into China and also for importing foreign built cars into the EU are both far in excess of the difference in labour cost. So due to the governments looking after their own interests it makes sense to build the cars in the region in which they will be sold.

Is Chinese labour cheaper than UK labour? It used to be Chinese but salaries have increased considerably in China and decreased in the UK, it is still Chinese that is cheaper but when you take into account the ease of removing unrequired jobs etc in the UK I don't think there is much in it these days!
So do you think that it is difficult to remove "unrequired jobs" in China?

A production line worker in the Chinese automotive industry will have earned something in the area of 60,000 yuan last year. About $800 a month is still considerably cheaper (and the minimum wages are a quarter of that, even if those will not count for those manufacturers).

There is a second good reason - the import taxes for importing foreign built cars into China and also for importing foreign built cars into the EU are both far in excess of the difference in labour cost. So due to the governments looking after their own interests it makes sense to build the cars in the region in which they will be sold.
So how do you explain the prices Geely aims for?

So do you think that it is difficult to remove "unrequired jobs" in China?

A production line worker in the Chinese automotive industry will have earned something in the area of 60,000 yuan last year. About $800 a month is still considerably cheaper (and the minimum wages are a quarter of that, even if those will not count for those manufacturers).

We are talking about SAIC workers and they are paid significantly more than the average. When did SAIC last actually remove an "unrequired production line job" in China?

So how do you explain the prices Geely aims for?
Those prices are as you say "aims". They have been "aiming" to enter the USA market since before MGR died and they have yet to sell a car!

We are talking about SAIC workers and they are paid significantly more than the average.
How much exactly?

When did SAIC last actually remove an "unrequired production line job" in China?
Where is the relation to your "but when you take into account the ease of removing unrequired jobs etc in the UK" argument (obviously you thought that this was some kind of a good argument).

Those prices are as you say "aims". They have been "aiming" to enter the USA market since before MGR died and they have yet to sell a car!
Just imagine that they will really do it.

There is a second good reason - the import taxes for importing foreign built cars into China and also for importing foreign built cars into the EU are both far in excess of the difference in labour cost. So due to the governments looking after their own interests it makes sense to build the cars in the region in which they will be sold.

There was a time when there was Chinese ownership, JV or potential ownership and the obvious starting point for sales would be the UK, followed by other European markets, then the U.S., and maybe next, China.

For NAC the money wasn't there and we can blame the UK government as much as the Chinese one for not investing. Maybe we can blame the lack of UK (or other) private investment and the administrators for choosing a company not financially able to restart properly in the UK, though the only alternative was SAIC, talking of which...

Some lift and shift and not sharing profits in a JV must have saved some money, but starting from scratch in China for production and market presence, new factories, training employees, lost time on development etc must have lost SAIC money and market.

I have no problem with SAIC looking after number 1. I just think if they had done that MG would be growing again in the UK after a brief break or no break and China would be about where it is with MG and Roewe (but as Rover) following but without the years lost between delaying and walking away from the JV and buying out NAC.

Anyway, is MG much of a seller in China?

There was a time when there was Chinese ownership, JV or potential ownership and the obvious starting point for sales would be the UK, followed by other European markets, then the U.S., and maybe next, China.

For NAC the money wasn't there and we can blame the UK government as much as the Chinese one for not investing. Maybe we can blame the lack of UK (or other) private investment and the administrators for choosing a company not financially able to restart properly in the UK, though the only alternative was SAIC, talking of which...

Some lift and shift and not sharing profits in a JV must have saved some money, but starting from scratch in China for production and market presence, new factories, training employees, lost time on development etc must have lost SAIC money and market.

I have no problem with SAIC looking after number 1. I just think if they had done that MG would be growing again in the UK after a brief break or no break and China would be about where it is with MG and Roewe (but as Rover) following but without the years lost between delaying and walking away from the JV and buying out NAC.

Anyway, is MG much of a seller in China?
You are making the assumption that MG-Rover could have carried on selling cars if it had been kept open but with no new models to sell that seems unlikely...

MG-Roewe in China have yet to reach the 1/2 million sales mark but compared to other Chinese owned brands (not including JVs) it is considered to be one of the most significant even though it is not as yet one of the best selling ones. One thing to note is that they do not have huge debts, they are building the company in an affordable, sustainable way which in the long term will see good results.

How much exactly?


Can't see a figure at the moment, but in relation to the USA there is little difference if this is typical:


A case in point is the situation many workers face at General Motors’ Lake Orion, Michigan assembly plant, 40 miles north of Detroit. GM moved production of the subcompact Chevrolet Sonic from South Korea to the plant after the UAW imposed wage-cutting concessions. The factory employs around 800 traditional workers, 500 tier-two workers and 200 others employed by third-party parts suppliers.


At $9 an hour, the contract workers at the plant make an annual straight-time salary of $18,720, well below the government’s official poverty threshold for a family of four. At this rate, few if any can afford the $14,000 Chevy Sonics or $23,470 Buick Veranos that roll off the assembly lines at the pace of 400 a day.


“When people hear I work at a GM plant, they say, ‘Wow, you’re lucky to have such a good-paying job.’ Then I tell them the real situation,” said one of the 78 contract workers at the plant. “Everyday I wake up I think about quitting because I don’t want to drive two hours back and forth—and spend so much on gas—just to make $60, after taxes.”


“A lot of workers get off work and have to go to another job because wages are so low,” the LINC worker continued. “Many are struggling working two or three jobs. I know a worker who just had her house foreclosed on.”

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/dec2011/linc-d14.shtml

Except that in China you can live very happily on that amount without needing additional jobs!

You are making the assumption that MG-Rover could have carried on selling cars if it had been kept open but with no new models to sell that seems unlikely...

MG-Roewe in China have yet to reach the 1/2 million sales mark but compared to other Chinese owned brands (not including JVs) it is considered to be one of the most significant even though it is not as yet one of the best selling ones. One thing to note is that they do not have huge debts, they are building the company in an affordable, sustainable way which in the long term will see good results.

No I'm not assuming no new models, I never said as much and really don't know where you would get the idea from that the JV involved no new models? The no new models is what happened because there was no JV. I fail to see the connection to my points except the bit about debts but the JV didn't involve taking on debts. All other scenarios would be post MGR anyway.

Did you misread my post as some sort of 'if MGR had continued'? If so read it again.

I don't agree MG or even Roewe is doing that well in China but while we'll never know for sure it seems most unlikely that MG/Roewe is doing better than the JV MG/Rover would have done. Much more likely is the reverse. On what basis would you argue MG/R is doing better without the JV than with, as I'd really like to know.

Even more so its difficult to argue combined JV MG/Rover sales would be worse than current MG sales. More models over 2 brands that never fully went away, probably a G-Series diesel too. Tell me it would have been as bad and tell me how.

Anyway, is MG much of a seller in China?

MG-Roewe in China have yet to reach the 1/2 million sales mark

just in November, 12,000 MGs and Roewes were sold... (!)

just in November, 12,000 MGs and Roewes were sold... (!)

not bad, but not great, and still shy of the quater million mark if my mental 'rythmatic is right.

give it 3-5 years though and hopefully those numbers will be far higher, given they are at the start of a massive new product cycle

just in November, 12,000 MGs and Roewes were sold... (!)

Yes quite good and I'm sure if SAIC had been able to use the Rover name/badge just a little better. Shame there couldn't be this and the JV's MG/Rover doing quite well in the UK too. Or SAIC got MGR in July 05 because they offered what NAC promised or more and MG sans Roewe could have been doing ok.

You know i'm not an automated MG/MGR/SAIC knocker, Pat. Happy xmas and New Year btw. Have been busy of late, and I get a strange pain in the forehead everytime I visit. :whistle:

not bad, but not great, and still shy of the quater million mark if my mental 'rythmatic is right.
Your rythm is not good, I said 1/2 million because when I rounded up to the next 100,000 that is the actual figure. Just the MG6/R550 has sold in excess of 1/4 million.

Your rythm is not good, I said 1/2 million because when I rounded up to the next 100,000 that is the actual figure. Just the MG6/R550 has sold in excess of 1/4 million.

didn't know they had done so well, thought they'd only managed about 200,000 in total tbh

where do you get the figures, i can only find 2010 numbers which are 170k

To get the thread back on track I've noticed the offer for a MG 6 'S' is now at £10,995 - only one on offer at this price. Not a lot of detail on the ad, so not sure if there's any part-ex assumed in that or anything, but seems a stonker of a deal to me. Shame I think the S spec is just a little under what I would like else I'd be on the phone to them to ask for more info.

To get the thread back on track I've noticed the offer for a MG 6 'S' is now at £10,995 - only one on offer at this price. Not a lot of detail on the ad, so not sure if there's any part-ex assumed in that or anything, but seems a stonker of a deal to me. Shame I think the S spec is just a little under what I would like else I'd be on the phone to them to ask for more info.


another £1000 drop to go and i might take one.

...if this is typical:
Not typical (or positive, as the article rightly indicates). Still looking forward for your Chinese figures.

To the sales figures:
For 2011, SAIC expected a sales growth of over 40 percent for Roewe/MG. But the sales they really reach will be below those from 2010. December figures will arrive in some days, but they will hardly change that negative and disappointing result.

To the sales figures:
For 2011, SAIC expected a sales growth of over 40 percent for Roewe/MG. But the sales they really reach will be below those from 2010. December figures will arrive in some days, but they will hardly change that negative and disappointing result.
They will be within a few 1000 of 2010 figures - effectively the same.

And you might agree that this simply is a disappointing result.

And you might agree that this simply is a disappointing result.
Disappointing yes, poor probably not. While some others have seen significant increases last year they aren't selling to the same group of customers.

To get the thread back on track I've noticed the offer for a MG 6 'S' is now at £10,995 - only one on offer at this price. Not a lot of detail on the ad, so not sure if there's any part-ex assumed in that or anything, but seems a stonker of a deal to me. Shame I think the S spec is just a little under what I would like else I'd be on the phone to them to ask for more info.

Now advertised at £14500 on autotrader for the s model , so assume the cheaper one has been sold?