Read these two articles and see what you think:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3621162.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/3621552.stm

From what I could gather, production would stay within the UK, though I don't suppose that would be much consolation to those at the Solihull site. Yet another example of what happens when manufacturing plants are laid in foreign hands - sound familiar?

One could say Ford is to blame. One could say Land Rover is to Blame. The real truth is that Solihull would have closed down 10 years ago without help.

If the factory can get up to spec then perhaps it will not close. In today's economy, that's all one can really say.

:: thread moved from MGR general chat to Other Manufactuers forum ::

Perhaps this has been Ford's plan since they bought the company 4 years ago. Keep production in the UK for a few years to keep them quiet and eventually move overseas.

I'm sure over the next decade Jaguar production will be shifted abroad and I have no doubt that BMW plan to do the same with the MINI.

I dont think this is part of any plan to move overseas or whatever. The facts are simple- Ford are losing money on British companies that have loads of factories producing few cars while some plants are well under-capacity. Unfortunately its easy to make a financial case for losing a factory. On the good side while jobs will be lost from one plant they will be gained at another

To be blunt, if Ford had any sense, they would do what they originally planned and build a brand new plant between Coventry and Solihull. They would then make the Coventry Jags and the lode lane Land Rovers in the same BRAND NEW plant. This would then allow both sets of workers to commute.

However, I suspect that Ford are contemplating shutting down Lode Lane and rebuilding Jaguar in Coventry. Simply because Ford have had more time to shape the Coventry plant in the way they want, than the LR plant. A friend of mine also works for Jag in Cov, but he started out working in Dagenham. Ford, have actually transferred many of their people into Jag in Cov, so they probably feel more in control.

The Coventry set up is designed to deal with Lower volumes, so if the Disco, Defender and Range Rover models went there then they would be a good fit. Gaydon, is also down the road, as well as a big Ford parts plant in Leamington spa. Furthermore recruitment is easy in Coventry as many people have worked in the car industry.

They could also argue that Land Rover came from Rover and Rover came from Coventry. So they would be "going home". Not a convincing arguement, but hey this is Ford.

Ultimately I don't think Ford will shut down Solihull, but if they do, then I think most of it will be going to Coventry.

From reading several articles and watching/listning to the news about it, if the people at Land Rover pull there socks up and meet the requirement they should have met months ago then everything would go according to plan.
Ford must give them targets as well as there own, otherwise where and what would people do? just plod along doing this and that?
Ive also heard that Aston Martin are building a completly new plant in the Midlands too, so cant really blame Ford? Unless theres something that people are not saying about regarding the targets set for LR.
I hope LR stays in Solihul for a few more years to come, but if theres money lost and its cheaper to relocate elsewhere in the UK then so be it.

Regards

Stu C

From Fords pov having lots of factories running under capacity is inneficient and a waste of money. I hope Solihull LR and Browns Lane survive but the only way they can is if Jag and LR sell more cars. I can see LR managing that with the new disco, RR sport etc but Jaguar i really cannot see improving in the next few years.

Ive also heard that Aston Martin are building a completly new plant in the Midlands too, so cant really blame Ford?
Stu C


Stu, I believe that the new plant is at Gaydon. Jaguar will only get better, when they get a bit more adveturous and when they change their Ford driven priorities. Ford must allow Jaguar to build the new F type to compete with the Boxter. This will help them appeal to a younger generation. Ford, must recognise that the X type has not worked for Jaguar, for a number of reasons. Firstly it doesn't look any better than cars like the Rover 75 (the 75 looks much better), yet it demands a higher price tag. Secondly, they don't have a big enough dealer network to sell the X type sucessfully.

If over capacity is a problem, why not make some 4x4 Jaguars? After all BMW have made 4x4's sucessfully. If Jaguar did this, they could roll them off the same production line as Land Rover and gain massive economies of scale. Ditch the Range Stormer, let Land Rover make 4x4's for the serious off roader, and Jaguar 4x4's for the BMW types who know nothing about offroading.

Land Rover are making profit and sales are booming. Jaguar struggles to sell cars and make a massive loss. Go figure!!!

What **** PR threatening to close plants down...what are they thinking!? Its part of fords doom and gloom tactics to get the workers to accept a **** paydeal and ****ty working practices.

They pulling similar tactics with the Jag as well.

Land Rover has one of the biggest paintshops in europe and struggles for capacity. To build LRs at Jag in cov isnt going to happen they dont even have a paintshop and ship painted bodies from Castle Brom. Adding to these volumes just isnt going to happen without huge huge investment. Would be cheaper to struggle on with Solihull.. which are nowhere near as far behind as Ford are making out.

I cant see the point in Jaguar making an SUV while LR is in PAG, all it would do is harm Jaguars image. What Jaguar need is an unique rwd chassis to base the new X and S types and new sports car on. With that they could really build some entertaining sporty models to attract new buyers with. They also need to ditch the retro styling in favour of braver stuff like on the concepts imo

There wouldn't be an issue at Solihull if everyone there got the message and got their act together. They have been clearly told that they need to improve output and quality. I've had three LR's and although I love the cars they are prone to stupid quality problems. The items are usually trivial but they are annoying and they have no place in vehicles of the type that LR claim to be - they speak to lack of care in building the vehicles. If the people at Solihull won't change then Ford should move the work somewhere else.

Looks like the workers at Lode Lane are going to tell Ford to get lost. Check it out:


http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100localnews/tm_objectid=14614582%26method=full%26siteid=50002% 26headline=get%2dstuffed%2d-name_page.html


Bet they miss the MGR days now!!

There wouldn't be an issue at Solihull if everyone there got the message and got their act together. They have been clearly told that they need to improve output and quality. I've had three LR's and although I love the cars they are prone to stupid quality problems. The items are usually trivial but they are annoying and they have no place in vehicles of the type that LR claim to be - they speak to lack of care in building the vehicles. If the people at Solihull won't change then Ford should move the work somewhere else.

Sorry i disagree, if Solihull isnt productive enough or doesnt achieve quality then its entirely down to mismanagment. Nobody goes to work wanting to do a bad job. Theres some very fundamental reasons behind it. Read about demming and quality then look at LRs managment. Its no coincidence that the 2 are miles apart and Solihull is supposedley underperforming.

Sorry i disagree, if Solihull isnt productive enough or doesnt achieve quality then its entirely down to mismanagment. Nobody goes to work wanting to do a bad job. Theres some very fundamental reasons behind it. Read about demming and quality then look at LRs managment.

I agree with some of the above, but workers also play their part in quality - in the Toyota and other Japanese systems the worker takes an active role in improving quality.
Land Rover quality is worse than MGR's because they never had the benefit of Honda's input in how to manufacture things and build in quality on the line rather than fix the problems at the end of the line.

LR thought they had beaten the Jap competition in the 80's such as the Shogun because they launched the Discovery - but they hadn't - they just stored up problems for later by building as many of a poorly built product as they could to maximise profits (particularly under BAe).

In the early 90's people brought Land Rovers regardless of the build quality, because the alternatives were Japanese vehicles designed for Asia, Africa and America - but nowadays the situation is different.

People are much more conscious of build quality in Land Rovers - Some of this is due to prices they charge, 30k for a Discovery and 50K+ for a RR. BMW X3/5 may be crap off road - where 95% of SUV buyers don't go - but they are reliable, which is what you expect for that sort of money!

Ford paid way over the mark for Land Rover because of the brand - just like they did for Jaguar. They then get to the factory and go 'oh ******' because the facilities are outdated.
I agree that LR workers are probably fed up with new management regimes - they have had three in the last 12 years - but ultimately a job for life dosen't exist anywere now.

I'm sure over the next decade Jaguar production will be shifted abroad and I have no doubt that BMW plan to do the same with the MINI.

I'm sure it would make sense for US market Jaguars to be built in the US or North America, because that is were the market is. This is why Merc and BMW built their US market 4wd's in the States.

I'm sure it would make sense for US market Jaguars to be built in the US or North America, because that is were the market is. This is why Merc and BMW built their US market 4wd's in the States.
Not to mention that they can then stick the all important 'Made in the US of A' sticker on the car... shame us brits aren't half as patrotic as the yanks. :(

Sorry i disagree, if Solihull isnt productive enough or doesnt achieve quality then its entirely down to mismanagment. Nobody goes to work wanting to do a bad job. Theres some very fundamental reasons behind it. Read about demming and quality then look at LRs managment. Its no coincidence that the 2 are miles apart and Solihull is supposedley underperforming.

My comments related to EVERYONE at Solihull - management and workers together. They both got themselves into this mess and they both have to dig themselves out.
The recent comments about telling Ford to `get lost' suggest to me that at least some individuals there have a death wish - in which case it should granted! :guns4:

Hmmm, not sure that the workforce is to blame now. According to all the reports I've read Ford are trying to get the workers to sign up to "Martini contracts" which means they can make people work when the want and the hours they want. Ford are actually trying to make Land Rover more efficient. As someone said earlier, LR workers don't want to make unreliable cars, it's up to the management to tell them/ help them to build more reliable cars.

The truth is I'm not sure Ford could sht Lode Lane down without smearing the workforce. The unions need to make sure that they aren't walking into a trap.

If all else fails, may I suggest we kick off the nationalise Land Rover campaign? (then flog it back to MGR for a quid!!!!)

Its upto management to enlist the assistance and co-operation of the workforce. Land Rover say they do but 5 minutes at the start of shift is not suitable for this and neither is saying "improve quality or we will shut you down"

Ford are as guilty as anyone in the mismanagment of Land Rover. IMO they are the worst!