I have today mostly been driving a Focus 1.6 TDI110. For 170 miles.

It's as foul as I imagined it would be, if yo're not in the miniscule power band you may as well get out and walk.

it's just like Clarkson said when he was driving that S-type diesel:

Nothing, nothing, nothing...HERESTHEPOWERCHANGEGEAR.

Horrific. How anyone would deliberately choose to subject themselves to this is beyond me.

I want my V6 back, sob.

So basically your saying your incapable of driving a car using the gears to keep it in the power band???

The only saving grace is that IMHO the Ford TDCI engines aren't as strong as the Pug, VX, etc. counterparts.

It's quite simple - if your doing an at the lights kinda of sprint then you use revs and keep the rev range between 2000-3500 rpm - shouldn't be too difficult considering that every gear change on most cars will drop ~1000rpm.

If you accelerate from low revs in a diesel there will be a lack of power as there would be in a petrol engined car - it's a little thing that petrol cars also with turbo's suffer from..... what is it now...... ah yes, boost threshold and turbo lag. With a diesel though there is more than enough torque to actually get the speed up off the turbo and raise the engine revs into the power band where the turbo can then kick in. Contrast your wait with that of the super high performance Mitsubishi Evo that Clarkson had on top gear when he demonstrated threshold/turbo lag on that particular car.
Also, just have to say, what are you expecting from a 1.6 Ford diesel??? Try a Pug diesel - ok the problems of wait/lag and the fact the car is a heap are still there but they are much more drivable. Or better yet try and get a drive in a better car with a better engine like a Audi or BMW or something.

I would say that if this is your first diesel experiance, you've had a wrong one!. Get out there and drive some good ones, bmw, audi, Seat, Mercedes etc... People compare petrol to diesel all the time, and they shouldnt, totally differant engine all together.

Nah. I think I'll stick with my V6 ZS. This was a hire car so it's not like I have to drive it every day.

It confirmed all I'd read about diesels but had not experienced directly. And this is an 05 car, not some 20 year old shed. I'm perfectly capable of changing gear I just don't fancy ending up with Popeye's left arm from having to change gear every microsecond.

It's not as if the Focus 1.6 petrol is any better to be honest - lots of waiting for power but the problem there is it never comes and you have to change gear anyway very quickly to use the higher revs.

All it confirms is everything you've read about crap diesels...... notice how that when Clarkson drove the VW Tuareg with its V10 5 litre TDI engine he never once criticised the engine behaviour or performance........ isn't that odd. Also, when they had the BMW 5 series diesel on and (VERY WRONGLY) compared it to the bigger sized petrol engine and it only just lost out (thus proving that the diesel is faster IMHO) there wasn't that big a complaint about how it drove. Bottom line, drive a crap car with a basic engine (regardless of fuel type) and no point comparing it to a ZS V6 which is good for 180bhp.

Also, just have to say, what are you expecting from a 1.6 Ford diesel??? Try a Pug diesel - ok the problems of wait/lag and the fact the car is a heap are still there but they are much more drivable. Or better yet try and get a drive in a better car with a better engine like a Audi or BMW or something.

Errr... the Ford 1.6 diesel IS a Pug diesel...

Pug make the shared 1.4/1.6 units and share the 2.0 for Focus/Focus C-Max. Ford make the 1.8 unit, the Mondeo/X-Type 2.0/2.2 and the 2.7V6

Yep I know they are shared which is part of the reason why both manufacturers could instantly boast particulate filter technology.
However, both manufacturers do map their engines differently. My cousin works for Ford in the diesel engine department (on the Jag diesel which they are planning to slot into some of the yank cars in Ford America family) and he is of the opinion that they (Pug) run higher boost and different engine mapping than Ford on their cars. This is proven by the fact that the 307 1.6 HDI is ooodles faster than the Focus. He's pretty sure the Pug's will not last as long though (hardly a problem, the car should fall apart after a few years anyway).

EDIT: On paper the Pug is nearly half a second SLOWER to 60 than the Focus whilst both have the same top speed.... however methinks Ford are cooking the books on that one. Every Focus diesel I've driven seems sedate and less ready to get up and go than the Pug 307. You may think I'm applying bias here but honestly, if I had to put money on which is faster I'd still put my money on the Pug regardless of what it says on paper (and if I really had to buy either I'd have a Ford over a Pug).

If it was a hire car, then it almost certainly isn't old enough/done enough miles to be run in.

Well, Vincero, I know a bloke who boasts that he

"Drives it like a hire car"

Should we take this to mean "Keeps changing into the wrong gear?" or " :doh: Just meant to indicate, why are the wipers going?" ;)

I had a Rover 25 Diesel once as my courtesy car. What I eventually realised was that I had to put BOTH feet onto the accelerator to get ANY movement out of it, i.e. I had to change my driving style!

There are many excellent diesels out there now, judging by who can get anywhere away from motorway tollbooths. They're just not for me (and I worry about the environment...)

pat

To have a fair comparison of petrol Vs Diesel you should drive a Bmw 330d sport or Alfa 156 2.5 JTD sport probably waste your v6 MG!

Ibve had my 25 td since december. as standard they arnt too exciting but once you get them chipped you will have a grin from ear to ear. give it a chance only £300 to get it chipped and it makes loads of difference

Well, Vincero, I know a bloke who boasts that he

"Drives it like a hire car"

Should we take this to mean "Keeps changing into the wrong gear?" or " :doh: Just meant to indicate, why are the wipers going?" ;)

I had a Rover 25 Diesel once as my courtesy car. What I eventually realised was that I had to put BOTH feet onto the accelerator to get ANY movement out of it, i.e. I had to change my driving style!

There are many excellent diesels out there now, judging by who can get anywhere away from motorway tollbooths. They're just not for me (and I worry about the environment...)

pat

That's more of a comical tag than a statement - I could drive it like a hire car but then it would need new tyres every 5000 miles, clutch after 20k and have more rippled panels than the scrap bin of a body shop.

Most people don't have to drastically change their driving style. For normal city / around town driving there is more than enough low down power on diesel or petrols. It's just that if you suddenly want to go for a race you have to drop a cog to get it into the power band and hug it like your life depended on it - to be honest not much different from if driving a petrol except you don't get much out of revving the balls of it.

Coming from a turbo charged petrol car, to a Rover 220SDi the first thing i thought was its a little unresponsive.

However once you get used to changing gears at 3.5-3750rpm it in the real world doesnt feel that much slower than 200+bhp cars. The only problem with diesels are their first gears feel soooo lame.

Get used to leaving your foot to the floor and they feel like they fly, though i think this is just an illusion as the traffic around doesnt seem to be going much slower either, in the Ti i was always miles a head.

Though you buy a derv to save money. I am getting more than double mpg and the car is nearly as much fun to drive.

With a derv you can thrash it all over, with a 200bhp+ car you are always having to hold back somewhat. It is more fun to thrash a slower car to its limits than it is holding back in a more powerful car.

45mpg+ oh yes :D

To have a fair comparison of petrol Vs Diesel you should drive a Bmw 330d sport or Alfa 156 2.5 JTD sport probably waste your v6 MG!

Yeah alright, I'll just have a word with the Fleet Manager.:rotflmao:

Seriously tho, the thing I object to most is that diesels make overtaking dangerous, especially on a long stretch. My V6 has a usable range of nigh-on 4000 rpm before I have to change, the Focus had 1500. On my V6 I might have to change once, the Focus 3 times. I couldn't be doing with it on a daily basis for the kind of cross country drive that is my commute to work. If I was sat on a motorway for the same mileage then yep, a diesel might make more sense.

Get an auto diesel, the perfect combination - plant your foot on the accelerator and the autobox keeps it at the right revs for the most torque and best acceleration.

[QUOTE=Yugguy]:rotflmao:

Seriously tho, the thing I object to most is that diesels make overtaking dangerous, especially on a long stretch. QUOTE]

What?! The diesel you were driving must have had a fault because even the L Series that I drove would give you a serious shove in the back and chuck you through the overtake really well. That's without having to change down. It's a different driving style, but once I got used to it, diesel seems more ideally suited to road driving. I won't be going back to petrol if I can help it.

Oh yes, Diesel's are so power less thats why All HGV's and Busess are Petrol's I think not!

To have a fair comparison of petrol Vs Diesel you should drive a Bmw 330d sport or Alfa 156 2.5 JTD sport probably waste your v6 MG!

neither of these cars would waste the zs180... the words diesel and sport are such a contradiction!

Diesel power is a con anyway. diesels are only powerful if you strap a turbo on to them and rack up the boost.


Strap a turbo on a petrol engine and get the same effect. Saab Griffin anyone, quicker gear times than a Ferrari?

Diesel power is a con anyway. diesels are only powerful if you strap a turbo on to them and rack up the boost.


Strap a turbo on a petrol engine and get the same effect. Saab Griffin anyone, quicker gear times than a Ferrari?

Too right. Be to be fair to the opposing team, even with a turbo, they're fuel efficient.

Seriously tho, the thing I object to most is that diesels make overtaking dangerous, especially on a long stretch. My V6 has a usable range of nigh-on 4000 rpm before I have to change, the Focus had 1500. On my V6 I might have to change once, the Focus 3 times. I couldn't be doing with it on a daily basis for the kind of cross country drive that is my commute to work. If I was sat on a motorway for the same mileage then yep, a diesel might make more sense.

I think some of the Ford diesel engines do have a very narrow power band, in fact the good old L-Series is probably better in this respect, it's one of the revvier diesel engines around (well it certainly was when it was new).

Like everything else there's good and bad petrol engines, and you've been spoilt mate with the ZS180 because the KV6 is an excellent engine from a driveability point of view. It's got good low-down pull (in the ZS anyway) and flies at high revs all the way to 7000rpm.

Diesels can be a bit weird, for an overtake your natural instinct is to use a low gear and thrash past, but in a diesel you're better off using a high gear to get the turbo spooling and rush past on the torque.

My main problem with diesels is that when driving along behind them their flumes are easily detectable as they enter the cabin, which I don't like!

diesel engines do more miles per gallon and can produce huge amounts of torque but petrols a nicer drive by far, dont even attempt to argue against that fact!

LPG as an all rounder

diesel engines do more miles per gallon and can produce huge amounts of torque but petrols a nicer drive by far, dont even attempt to argue against that fact!

LPG as an all rounder

Well its any easy argument to win becuase you have included all driving enviroments Around town at slow speeds a diesel wins hands down every day of the week. It depends how you use a car to which is the better drive. I'd prefer a petrol for enthusiastic driving, however for day to day mundane town driving i prefer the diesel.

neither of these cars would waste the zs180... the words diesel and sport are such a contradiction!


Lets look at the facts (figers from Parkers Guide)

MG ZS 180 BHP 174 0-60 7.3 Max MPH 139 **PETROL**

BMW 330d SPORT BHP 187 0-62 7.1 Max MPH 147 **DIESEL**

All That with 37.5 MPG!!

I need say no more>