Easy question Re Cold Start Prob -Priming Bulb - How Long Should It Maintain Pressure - MG-Rover.org Forums
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 14-02-2017, 16:14 Thread Starter
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Easy question Re Cold Start Prob -Priming Bulb - How Long Should It Maintain Pressure

Hi
MGZS 2.0TD 2004 140,000 miles

After pumping the "Priming Bulb" until it's nice and firm,

- if left for "a while"
- HOW LONG - should it "Stay Firm"
- (Approx) Few mins ? 1/4 hour ? Half an hour?
(read numerous cold start threads on the board - commonly mentioned to "Try Before Starting" but nobody answers the above)
.................................................. ............

Common annoying problem with cold starting
- just began, ie not a slow creeping insidious problem.

Only get it - first cold start of the day - rest of day - fine, starts 1st touch of key.

- battery been drop tested - fine
- power to glow plugs - fine
- the 3 accessible glow plugs physically removed - tested across battery, - bright radiant orange - fine
- no pending codes - read with Sykes P ACR4 - fine
- injector leak off hoses (inc return to pump) changed 6m ago - when did belts. All still tight, dry no splits/perishing/swelling etc
- fuel pipe condition to/from filter fuel fine
- temporarily put gasket sealant round fuel filter bleed bolt (Just to exclude)
- changed timing/aux/fuel pump belts 6m ago - rechecked timing and fuel pump timing - all pins go in perfect easy snug fit - fine
(As just began so to speak, not a creeping problem, and as rechecked - confident not belt stretch or cam sprocket slip)
- assume water temp wouldn't be a great factor, and that prob with sensor - would throw a code up.
- unions all checked at pump and injectors - fine.
- no signs of any leaks around timing/metering solenoids - or blanking bolt " where a useful spindle lock "should be" :o(
.................................................. ..............

Never had cause to check - a potential priming bulb problem
- so no idea if/how long it should maintain pressure
- assume should be a while - as bar actual fuel loss via injectors - it's a closed loop - after fuel filter - ie to pump, leak off back to pump etc.

So just thought I ask - the simple question I started with, to rule it out.

Any other - check - suggestions.... also welcome - in case I've missed anything.

Thanks GAZKAZ

Last edited by gazkaz; 14-02-2017 at 16:20.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 15-02-2017, 09:06 Thread Starter
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Seems like the "Easy Questions" - often perhaps ... have the hardest answers :o)
- thought the Gurus and regulars would be back with answers in a flash on that question.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 15-02-2017, 13:20 Thread Starter
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Just for anybody else who can't get an answer - on the above simple question
- called into a couple of garages on my travels today. Opinions....
- they both said
- "can be very variable from under a minute to longer - without either being definitively indicative of a fault with the bulb".
Both said - "changing it for a budget one.... is a bit of a gamble, as they commonly leak, so check 'em in a bucket of water - before fitting".

Then called at a local garage on the way home - ran through problem and what I have checked etc
- he also confirmed both the other garage comments above.

But added.... 2 potential suggestions
1) The fuel filter has not been changed for a while, so worth changing, as water and general "crapito" (must be a techy garage term :o) can impede fuel flow after settling overnight, but after a morning cold start churning, fuel flow is sufficient over the day.

2) And.... Shhh - also said a... trade tip - is whilst changing the fuel filter - fill it with fuel injector cleaner
- and give it "some right boot" - until it has cleared through - (and the fog lifts)
- gives all the post filter pipes and pump an aggressive clean
- as well as cleaning the injector nozzles with - neat injector cleaner.
(as he says - impeded/dirty injectors nozzles and resultant poor spray pattern - doesn't exactly help
- on cold start )
.......................................

NB - No advice re.... trying the above - given, suggested or implied here, by me or any 3rd parties
Do your own.... due diligence research
- then if you do try the above - it's your choice - all and any risks and/or outcomes injury/damage etc is entirely your responsibility etc.
..........................................

Will let you know how I get on this weekend.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 20-02-2017, 21:45
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Priming bulb should go hard and stay that way permenantly. But they rarely do. If they hold pressure for more than a minute it is probably serviceable.

Is the glow plug relay working (they often burn out)

Is the cam belt and fuel pump belt timing correct. If the fault coincides with a belt change then this is almost certainly the reason. Sometimes only noticed the first time it gets really cold as summer starting may still be ok if slightly out.

Number 2 above is a well known trick but is unlikely to help with this issue.

You've not actually said what the problem is - I'm assuming poor starting on the first cold start of the day?
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 21-02-2017, 09:18
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I too had issues with the first cold start of the day but also had poor performance between 1200-1850rpm and after checking the the timing which was all fine I took out my maf and cleaned with electro clean and bam it sprung back in to life only for it to start doing it again I ordered a new one and a new standard air filter and all perfect again I don't think our mafs like induction kits especially the cheep ones hope this is of some use to you
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 27-02-2017, 21:41 Thread Starter
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Hi ETV
- Thanks for the input, appreciated.

I think you perhaps overlooked - the 2nd para - as to stating the - actual problem

Common annoying problem with cold starting
- just began,...... ie not a slow creeping insidious problem.

After that - I list - what I have already tried

- a kinda last thought after all that lot - was the priming bulb question - which no other post re cold starting, seemed to address
- many said - try pumping till firm - then try starting
- but nobody suggested a time range - that ...it should stay firm ie (With less than that - suggesting faulty)
- hence my question .

You are also.... correct - in that - replacing the fuel filter (and filling with injector cleaner) - has not... solved the problem
- though, there has been.... a slight ...10/20% reduction - in starter turnover time, before it starts.
(Although I run injector cleaner - via the traditional tank route 3/4 x per year, 3/5,000 miles - it's certainly running smoother and quieter as a result... so bit of a bonus there).

Also appreciate your opinion re the priming bulb question - "If they hold pressure for more than a minute it is probably serviceable"
- it reinforces the above garage mechanics opinions.

Thanks again & all the best GazKaz
-
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 27-02-2017, 22:40 Thread Starter
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MercShady - thanks for your reply.

- I took the standard airbox out about 10yrs ago - and replaced with an induction cone filter
- and as you say - about every 6M it throws up a P1100 MAF fault
- I clean the MAF with Servisol 40 (Video Cleaner) - and it goes away for another 6m

BUT - I also have had fitted for 10yrs - a Rover Ron "MAFAM" (Which fools the ECU that the air temperature is colder than it actually is, and therefore ups the fueling.... and gets rid of the pre 2000rpm sluggishness, pre-turbo, giving a nice consistent pull... right through from tickover up to X,000 rpm :o)

BUT in addition as recommended by RoverRon - I also have the Pierburg MAF fitted (Instead of the standard Bosch) which compliments the MAFAM (current one is only the 2nd in 10yrs, so also saves a lot -vs- the frequent Bosch replacement too)

Your reply - has prompted me.... into :-

- giving a try - disconnecting the MAFAM (a fault there -could be the problem or contributory - which I never considered)
- and refitting the... original Bosch MAF
ie putting back to - near standard (as you tried and succeeded) - and seeing if it makes a difference.
(It would take some time for the cone/induction filter to have any adverse effect - on the NEW set up, so will leave that FTB)

Will post how it goes.

Thanks again GazKaz
.................................................. ..........

Just repeating this - in case anybody else reading missed it in the previous post

Replacing the fuel filter (and filling with injector cleaner) >>> has not... solved the problem

- though, there has been.... a slight ...10/20% reduction - in starter turnover time, before it starts
(I suppose as TESCO puts it - "Every Little Helps" :o)
(Although also whilst - I run injector cleaner - via the traditional tank route 3/4 x per year, 3/5,000 miles
- it's certainly running smoother and quieter as a result of the - new filter/injector cleaner ... so bit of a bonus there).
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 22-04-2017, 21:29 Thread Starter
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Problem SOLVED !!!

Even though the very first thing I did was - remove and clean both battery terminals, plus connectors, as well as clean,,,,, the body earth point and connector
- and gave the earth lead connector to the - gearbox - a judicious TUG

This morning - turned the ignition key - no response at all... from starter motor
- all dash lights lit (& strangely REV Counter registering 1500 RPM ??)

Lifted bonnet - gave both battery terminals a firm wiggle - then grabbed
>>>> the earth lead..... to the gearbox.... to give it a firm tug

NO NEED - it had BROKEN at the gearbox - ring connector/lug

Drilled out the residual copper wireand managed to open up the crimp tabs. Remade the broken end of the earth lead, then crimped the ring connector/lug back on.
Reconnected earth lead
- CAR STARTED PERFECTLY.

Problem - earth lead must have been getting down to only being connected by last few wires of the cable
- although enough... to withstand a tug
- not a good enough connection left - to withstand - the high current demand of the - glow plugs .... and starter motor.

So a cold start problem - don't just give the earth lead a tug - to check connected
- check the integrity of the physical connection
- to make sure that the engine movement/vibration over XXXX thousand miles hasn't been breaking it's way through the fine wires making up the cable, leaving it only connected by a few strands
(Akin to repeatedly ...bending a piece of tin back and forth... to break it)

Hope it might help someone else

If so ....Please add comment - Thanks GazKaz
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 22-04-2017, 21:34
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Good find! It can give some very odd symptoms.



Dieselpowered - file revisions ahead of the competition
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 23-04-2017, 01:03
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Glad you posted the final fix

I had something similar in my 220 SD but it did blew on cold days a fuse in the engine bay box.
I add a new car audio golden cable from battery to gearbox for ground and positive from battery to the starter

I had the same towing on the damn cable done nothing was still strong but had to be corroded inside.
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