General K4 Cam Timing Marks and Belt Tensioning - (simplified thread) - Page 2 - MG-Rover.org Forums
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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-09-2012, 20:32
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Timing marks not correct

I need to replace the water pump on my 1.8VVC MGF. Timing belt was last replaced by PO about 10000 miles ago. Came across this excellent thread while searching on this topic because I have a problem - the timing marks do not line up with the old belt fitted. Engine ran smooth before though.

With the camshaft notches lined up, the crankshaft seems to be about one notch to the left of what it should be. i.e the line on the block is just to the right of the right most dot on the crankshaft :/

At which point I have to concede I made a small mistake removing the pulley and had accidentally left the camshaft locking tool in while undoing the pulley bolt, using the "5th gear with someone standing on the bakes method". The locking tool was still loose after, but i think the whole crankshaft did move slightly anti clockwise while untighening the bolt.

Question is, do I now replace the belt exactly as it is without moving anything or do I line it up perfectly on the timing marks?
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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-12-2012, 18:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1955diesel View Post
Cam Belt Tensioning.

The original K series engine had a manually adjusted cam belt tensioner which is set using an external spring. This is then discarded after use to stop it jumping off into the cam belt! Later ones (and I think VVC) had a rubber sleeve fitted to prevent this from happening. The tensioner on the standard engine was changed at 97.5 MY to a spring loaded automatic tensioner that self adjusts to compensate for wear after initial setting, but the VVC and 8 Valve engines retained the manual tensioner. The cylinder head casting was changed to accommodate the different fixings of the new tensioner so they are not directly interchangeable.



The two different tensioners look like this:

Auto Tensioner.



Manual Tensioner.


Belt change intervals are 60,000 miles / 6 years (4 years on some models) for manual tensioners and 90,000 miles / 6 years for automatic. However, I think that most people accept 60,000 miles / 6 years as being safe for most engines.


There are three different cam belts available to suit the various engine / tensioner combinations plus the one used on the 8 valve engine -

143 teeth 23mm wide manual tensioner standard.
143 teeth 26mm wide manual tensioner VVC.
145 teeth 26mm wide auto tensioner.


Tensioning Procedure.


After fitting the cam belt, the tension should be roughly set and then the engine is turned by hand for two revolutions clockwise. This both settles the belt and also gives the chance to check that nothing is going to lock up. Stop turning when the timing marks are lined up again and recheck that they are correct, then finally set the tension.

With the manual tensioner this is done by slackening off the fixings a little so that the spring tension can set the tensioner position then retightening the fixings. If the spring does not have a rubber sleeve fitted around it, it should then be removed.

The auto tensioner is set by slackening the fixing and then turning the tensioner with an allen key anticlockwise until the wire pointer lines up with the indicator notch. The fixing is then retightened. The action of the auto tensioner while setting up is shown in this video. (he gets his clockwise/anti-clockwise mixed up! Turning anti-clockwise as shown is correct)
It is normal for the auto tensioner position to change as the engine is rotated, but it should return to the set position when the engine is stopped at the timing marks.

My water pump is leaking so it must be replaced. I decided to replace the cambelt and tensioner in the same process.
I have a Rover 216 Si (RF) from 1997 (16v)

I learned that my engine is fitted with the old type tensioner and 143 teeth cambelt, and that I have bought a new version cambelt/tensioner (145 teeth).

Can I just mount the new one? (Something mentioned about difference in the casting?!)

Last edited by orakel; 07-12-2012 at 18:09.
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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-12-2012, 20:14
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To convert a manual tensioner engine to auto tensioner you would also need to drill and thread a new hole for the bolt as they are in a different place.

The correct belt and tensioner are easily available (and no more expensive) so I would recommend getting the correct belt and tensioner for your engine.
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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-12-2012, 21:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Man in the Car View Post
To convert a manual tensioner engine to auto tensioner you would also need to drill and thread a new hole for the bolt as they are in a different place.

The correct belt and tensioner are easily available (and no more expensive) so I would recommend getting the correct belt and tensioner for your engine.

Hmm - have searched the subject and realise that you're right. Must return the goods.
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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-12-2012, 09:53
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hi guys im new to this forum. hope everyone is ok. i have a question regarding changing my head gasket... iv managed to take off my head, fitted a uprated gasket and a new timing belt, set all the wheels to the correct possion for the timing to be correct. all the sparks are firing as they should, yet the car is not running how it should be. needs revs to start up and soon as i lift off my foot it just goes dead. could it still be a timing issue even tho iv got all the marks lined up correctly or am i missing somet???? any help or advice i would be very greatful for. thanks craig
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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-12-2012, 09:55
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hi guys im new to this forum. hope everyone is ok. i have a question regarding changing my head gasket... iv managed to take off my head, fitted a uprated gasket and a new timing belt, set all the wheels to the correct possion for the timing to be correct. all the sparks are firing as they should, yet the car is not running how it should be. needs revs to start up and soon as i lift off my foot it just goes dead. could it still be a timing issue even tho iv got all the marks lined up correctly or am i missing somet???? any help or advice i would be very greatful for. thanks craig

oh and my cars a 1.4 mg zr 05 plate
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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 21-06-2013, 12:27
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Is this process the same for the 1.4 ZR K series engine (obviously non VVC)?
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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 25-06-2013, 07:07
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Anyone?


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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 25-06-2013, 18:06
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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-10-2013, 05:48
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Was just reading through this guide ( got the how to section on bookmarks)

From experience i cannot stress how important it is to just take the crank pulley off . There is a tiny lip that the pulley sits on and to me , it seems so, so easy to slip. Meaning the timing mark on it will be miles out.

S
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post #31 of 36 (permalink) Old 16-07-2016, 21:45
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Look:

NO NEED to remove crank bolt to see ANY marks, everybody said,ALL 4 PISTONS must be at equal height; SO ::::spark plugs OUT:::::: LONG screwdriver ( rod,etc,STEEL OK OK OK )in hole:::::::socket on crank bolt, or rock car in 5th,until pistons 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 are at same height: I USE MY THUMB NAIL to mark the height on the LONG screwdriver; works every time; if you need to change the belt,of course you need to undo the crank bolt,and pulleys;
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post #32 of 36 (permalink) Old 16-07-2016, 21:57
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ex:rover 25 1.4; ALL 4 PISTONS must be at the SAMe height; NO need to see any marks on crank pulley,etc::: plugs out,LOOONG scewdriver in hole(rod,etc,)...i use my thumb nail;you know what to do; of course if you need to change the belt, you HAVE to undo crank bolt and pulleys
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post #33 of 36 (permalink) Old 16-07-2016, 23:32
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^^^You are trying to be clever and making a simple job complicated.
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post #34 of 36 (permalink) Old 23-02-2017, 06:09
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Camshaft lobes timing

Hello guys i hope one of you can help me sort my problem i have rover 25 with timing problem which is no't timing marks in crankshaft or crank pulley's but it's to match those with valves setting so i through maybe some one knew what is the exact timing of the cam lobes look like because my cam pulley both exactly same with number 101360 both inlet and exhaust what i think happens if the tow pulley's or reversed but befor i make any change i need photo for lobes when cam pulley's in time so i compare it with mine and try to fix this problem ,will be so happy to get answer .
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post #35 of 36 (permalink) Old 23-02-2017, 08:11
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Camshafts and pulleys are identical - that is why there are clear markings on the pulleys to ensure that they are correctly aligned.

Ensure the pins in the end of the cam shafts are located in the correct slot for whichever side of the engine that cam is fitted (ie. pin in the slot marked IN for the inlet camshaft, and in the slot marked EX for the exhaust camshaft), and then align the marks near the outer edge of the cam pulleys so that the rear (inlet) pulley has the IN mark aligned directly with the EX mark on the front (exhaust) camshaft. Then lock the cams with a cam locking tool and fit the belt with the bottom (crankshaft) pulley aligned with the mark on the cam belt cover or block.

I do not see why you need to have photos of the cams, or indeed what you would gain from them?
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post #36 of 36 (permalink) Old 23-02-2017, 09:30
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I will try tomorrow when i get the time i have been doubts because i saw the tow lobes in both sides moving in same direction which is not normal and both move in same angel but i guess there is something with the setting of this pulley need to check it one more time but anyway thanks for your clear answer i was looking to ask specially you as i believe through your replays in different threads you knew good about this engines and this model thanks so much for your clear answer i will let you know tomorrow anyway
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