No AWD for UK - 2WD only - Page 4 - MG-Rover.org Forums
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post #61 of 92 (permalink) Old 06-05-2016, 10:33
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Originally Posted by R8NMG View Post
One of those typical arrogant statement
One of those typical arrogant replies indeed.

For what its worth I hold several professional driving qualifications and Im a certified test driver for several car brands. Part of my job is to support the testing and fault finding of vehicles that are nearing commercial release with a manufacturers own design and quality team, providing an independent fresh set of eyes. This is especially true when Ive performed contract or consultancy work on the vehicle or system in question. Most recently my work has been with the GM group.

Ive spent a significant amount of time driving in winter conditions both in the UK and in Finland, Norway and Sweeden testing everything from 100bhp FF city cars to 500bhp monsters. These countries both suffer more extreme weather than the UK and yet AWD or 4X4 is not a particuarly common site.

There has never been a situation in a rear or front wheel drive car in the snow thats ever caused me to think "needed 4x4". Only in SPECIFIC AWD/4x4 testing cases have I ever encountered such a situation.

I lived on the very hilly rural outskirts of Sheffield the past 3 years and used to regularly drive over both the pennines and dales in bad conditions. With the correct attention, driving skill and correct tyres and pressures there should never be a situation where you get yourself into a situation where 4x4 is a "must".

Believe me after two years of driving an RX8 231 up and down a un-gritted road near me which is on a steep incline leading to my home Im very familiar with the challenges in the UK. Winter tyres and proper manual clutch control are all you need.
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post #62 of 92 (permalink) Old 06-05-2016, 13:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay13 PNTHR View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by R8NMG View Post
One of those typical arrogant statement
One of those typical arrogant replies indeed.

For what its worth I hold several professional driving qualifications and Im a certified test driver for several car brands. Part of my job is to support the testing and fault finding of vehicles that are nearing commercial release with a manufacturers own design and quality team, providing an independent fresh set of eyes. This is especially true when Ive performed contract or consultancy work on the vehicle or system in question. Most recently my work has been with the GM group.

Ive spent a significant amount of time driving in winter conditions both in the UK and in Finland, Norway and Sweeden testing everything from 100bhp FF city cars to 500bhp monsters. These countries both suffer more extreme weather than the UK and yet AWD or 4X4 is not a particuarly common site.

There has never been a situation in a rear or front wheel drive car in the snow thats ever caused me to think "needed 4x4". Only in SPECIFIC AWD/4x4 testing cases have I ever encountered such a situation.

I lived on the very hilly rural outskirts of Sheffield the past 3 years and used to regularly drive over both the pennines and dales in bad conditions. With the correct attention, driving skill and correct tyres and pressures there should never be a situation where you get yourself into a situation where 4x4 is a "must".

Believe me after two years of driving an RX8 231 up and down a un-gritted road near me which is on a steep incline leading to my home Im very familiar with the challenges in the UK. Winter tyres and proper manual clutch control are all you need.
I never doubted you of your experience nor do I really care about your experience but just because of your own experience to think you are better than everybody out there and telling people they shouldn't be on the road I would call that arrogant.

Perhaps true you might not need 4x4 as a must have but it certainly would be useful. Just like parking sensors are not must have but one of those that is nice too have, air con for that matter or power steering. Heck even washing machines people don't need to have in their home, what's wrong with washing clothes with hands.
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post #63 of 92 (permalink) Old 09-05-2016, 12:46
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Originally Posted by blastpipe View Post
Ask Land Rover, Suzuki or Skoda if AWD sells. Or do MG just want to have no USP other than built in china and cheap.

I've read online the lengths SAIC went to to develop the AWD system for this car it would be such a waste if it didn't come to the UK.

But hey MG know very well how not to sell cars - should leave them to it.
The majority of Range Rover sales are Evoques. And the majority of them are sold 2wd.

Dacia Sells more 2wd Dusters than 4wd and even more of their Stepway model which is a jacked up hatch.

Suzuki is similar in that if there is an option for 4wd or 2wd the majority go for 2wd.

Even the most well known 4wd system - The Quattro - lags behind its 2wd stablemates.

As much as we all like to think we want rugged, all terrain capabilities for 99% of people a SUV will be used to nip to the co-op to buy some loaf and milk.

I would much rather them focus on getting the 2.0T and the 1.8DTi to market than farting about stocking parts, getting the AWD system approved and put back through emmissions testing and everything else that comes with a new SKU for something that will sell in the tens.
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post #64 of 92 (permalink) Old 09-05-2016, 14:26
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So given the popularity of 2WD SUVS/Crossovers, does anyone know why MG has failed to offer the MG3 Xross here in the UK (or even not experimented with an MG6 equivalent)?
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post #65 of 92 (permalink) Old 09-05-2016, 15:20
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Originally Posted by R8NMG View Post
I never doubted you of your experience nor do I really care about your experience but just because of your own experience to think you are better than everybody out there and telling people they shouldn't be on the road I would call that arrogant.

Perhaps true you might not need 4x4 as a must have but it certainly would be useful. Just like parking sensors are not must have but one of those that is nice too have, air con for that matter or power steering. Heck even washing machines people don't need to have in their home, what's wrong with washing clothes with hands.
Thanks for the level reply. As you correctly say, its a "nice" thing to have. Stating anything is a "must" have is a dangerous and borderline ridiculous game.

I would genuinely recommend that you try a good set of winter weather tyres and familiarise yourself with techniques, if you have not already. You might find that this is a big help.

Its not me trying to be arrogant and apologies if that's the way it has come across, which evidently it has.

As you rightly point out, so many people insist on things they dont need, shouldnt need and probably dont use.
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post #66 of 92 (permalink) Old 09-05-2016, 15:24
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So given the popularity of 2WD SUVS/Crossovers, does anyone know why MG has failed to offer the MG3 Xross here in the UK (or even not experimented with an MG6 equivalent)?
I actually wondered that too, given the mechanicals will be near enough identical. The jacked up Sandero seems to do ok. The streetwise was probably ahead of its time too in terms of the offering, just not the styling.

They wouldn't have needed to offer the revised Euro look either, the original Chinese based model would have been fine, with some minor suspension tweaks.
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post #67 of 92 (permalink) Old 09-05-2016, 20:40
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I think that for a powerful car (especially one with a the the great low engine speed torque of a direct injection, petrol, turbo engine) front biased, four wheel drive gives considerable benefits both in the dry - no wheel spin on a full power take off, or low gear, full power overtaking - and superior traction in the wet - just look at Golf Type R wet weather laps times.

If the 217 BHP version of the MG GS comes, then 4 x 4 for me!

I think that you get far more control with a manual car - right gear at the right time rather than waiting for an auto to periodically, inadvertently put you in too low or too high a gear for the circumstances, so manual for me!

I thought that MG stood for "Safety Fast". Offering ceramic bakes as standard on the MG GS seems to show this intent. If that is the case, why not offer four wheel drive also, with all its benefits.

Also, why would GKN spend a reputed billion pounds on their far eastern facilities if they thought there was no market for both their two wheel and four wheel drive systems developed specifically for the MG GS.
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post #68 of 92 (permalink) Old 10-05-2016, 05:55
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To pick up on the winter tyres issue, I fitted a set to my old streetwise and it made a very noticeable improvement to wet and snow driving conditions. No problems in the summer at all. I think tyre wear is meant to be higher, but overall I was very impressed.
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post #69 of 92 (permalink) Old 10-05-2016, 08:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay13 PNTHR View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by R8NMG View Post
I never doubted you of your experience nor do I really care about your experience but just because of your own experience to think you are better than everybody out there and telling people they shouldn't be on the road I would call that arrogant.

Perhaps true you might not need 4x4 as a must have but it certainly would be useful. Just like parking sensors are not must have but one of those that is nice too have, air con for that matter or power steering. Heck even washing machines people don't need to have in their home, what's wrong with washing clothes with hands.
Thanks for the level reply. As you correctly say, its a "nice" thing to have. Stating anything is a "must" have is a dangerous and borderline ridiculous game.

I would genuinely recommend that you try a good set of winter weather tyres and familiarise yourself with techniques, if you have not already. You might find that this is a big help.

Its not me trying to be arrogant and apologies if that's the way it has come across, which evidently it has.

As you rightly point out, so many people insist on things they dont need, shouldnt need and probably dont use.
Yes I absolutely agree a good set of winter tyres will do wonders. I actually do run a set of Continental Winter Contact and the very first time it was really needed I was amazed at how brilliant they were at tackling snow. They were totally different animals to standard summer tyres. I wouldn't go without winter tyres now.

I did managed to get up a very long very steep hill with 2wd on ankle deep snow, just about got to the top but concerned of getting stuck. Had it been a 4x4, tackling that hill might have been a lot easier. As said earlier 4x4 would be nice to have and will make life easier just like most technology these days.
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post #70 of 92 (permalink) Old 10-05-2016, 08:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by blastpipe View Post
Ask Land Rover, Suzuki or Skoda if AWD sells. Or do MG just want to have no USP other than built in china and cheap.

I've read online the lengths SAIC went to to develop the AWD system for this car it would be such a waste if it didn't come to the UK.

But hey MG know very well how not to sell cars - should leave them to it.
The majority of Range Rover sales are Evoques. And the majority of them are sold 2wd.

Dacia Sells more 2wd Dusters than 4wd and even more of their Stepway model which is a jacked up hatch.

Suzuki is similar in that if there is an option for 4wd or 2wd the majority go for 2wd.

Even the most well known 4wd system - The Quattro - lags behind its 2wd stablemates.

As much as we all like to think we want rugged, all terrain capabilities for 99% of people a SUV will be used to nip to the co-op to buy some loaf and milk.
As I mentioned earlier it must be due to the extra costs rather than people wanting a 2wd system over 4x4. It will be interesting to see if they both sell at the same price, how many of which would be sold.

Good example will be like optional extras. A lot of cars cars now have rear parking sensors as standard, there are some still are optional extras and you can see those people not willing to pay for them so they would rather go without than the extra expense.
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post #71 of 92 (permalink) Old 21-05-2016, 12:12 Thread Starter
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I think the car would appeal to caravanners.

Caravan people like 4x4. I work on a campsite, and a bit of damp ground and thats it.

That's where these crossovers really help
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post #72 of 92 (permalink) Old 23-05-2016, 11:48
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Originally Posted by roverchippy View Post
I think the car would appeal to caravanners.

Caravan people like 4x4. I work on a campsite, and a bit of damp ground and thats it.

That's where these crossovers really help
The MG6 won a towing car of the year award from someone. Didnt help sales....
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post #73 of 92 (permalink) Old 23-05-2016, 13:27
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Originally Posted by Jay13 PNTHR View Post
The MG6 won a towing car of the year award from someone. Didnt help sales....
Unbelievable considering how few have been sold in the UK. Just goes to show you have to take these awards with a large pinch of salt.
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post #74 of 92 (permalink) Old 23-05-2016, 15:53
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Tow car awards are not likely to impact sales at all - how many people actually want to tow? How many cars (of any size) do you actually see with a tow bar fitted - as a percentage of the total number of cars you see about, not very many. .
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post #75 of 92 (permalink) Old 23-05-2016, 16:57
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Have you been down the A30 and M5 in summer. Lol.

Also most new cars have detachable hitches now.
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post #76 of 92 (permalink) Old 23-05-2016, 19:29
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Whatever you might like to think, towing is a minority sport.
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post #77 of 92 (permalink) Old 07-06-2016, 23:10
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Returning to the original topic, it would appear to be another unfounded rumour (though not helped by a lack of official information thus far).

However, a small article in the latest edition of What Car has the following information about the forthcoming GS:
  • A choice of 3 engines: 148bhp 1.9l diesel, 1.5l petrol or 2.0l petrol
  • A choice of 2 transmissions: 6-speed manual, or an automatic
  • A choice of 2 drivetrains: front-wheel drive, or four-wheel drive on some models
  • A choice of 3 trim levels
  • Price from 17,000 (estimated)
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post #78 of 92 (permalink) Old 08-06-2016, 08:18
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following on

Following all this, it seems to me the official message is the 1.5T as a 2WD manual or auto will be the initial offering. Assuming sales are ok, the 2.0 petrol and diesel will follow, once they mange to get Euro 6 compliant. I think a 4WD version will also follow, but have not been able to pin down which engine this would be. I think both the 1.5T and 2.0 petrol are available with 4WD. From what I have read the 1.5T is a very good engine, so while in theory I would prefer the 2.0, the 1.5T is more powerful than most normal 2.0 16v lumps.
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post #79 of 92 (permalink) Old 09-06-2016, 05:49
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In view of all the fuss over diesels in the news now and the possibility of punitive tax dis incentives, is it wise now to buy a diesel car anymore?
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post #80 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-06-2016, 09:50
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In view of all the fuss over diesels in the news now and the possibility of punitive tax dis incentives, is it wise now to buy a diesel car anymore?
Definitely not wise! At least MG got something right with the GS in this regard; just as they were spectacularly wrong with supposedly improved MG6.
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