K series engine power? - MG-Rover.org Forums
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-03-2017, 21:50 Thread Starter
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K series engine power?

I want to purchase a new engine to replace my 1.4 in my 2005 ZR

I have been doing some digging around and i have gotten myself a little confused.

Is the following correct;

1.4 = 105 HP
1.6 = 115 HP
1.8 = 120 HP
1.8 VVC = 160HP

I have seem some 1.8 engines for sale that have a BHP of 135. This is where i am getting confused. Why are some 120 and others 135?
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-03-2017, 22:48
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1.4 (low output) = 84ps/82bhp (this is the same engine as the 101ps version, but has a restricted throttle body)
1.4 = 103ps/101bhp
1.6 = 110ps/109bhp
1.8 = 117ps/115bhp
1.8 = 135ps/134bhp (only fitted to the TF 135)
1.8 VVC = 143ps/141bhp (MGF, Rover 200 Vi, 200 BRM and 25 GTi)
1.8VVC = 160ps/157bhp (TF 160 and ZR 160)
1.8T = 160ps/157bhp (Rover 75/MG ZT)

The 135 version of the 1.8 gets the extra power from having slightly different cam profiles and a different ecu map from the 117ps 1.8.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-03-2017, 20:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Man in the Car View Post
1.4 (low output) = 84ps/82bhp (this is the same engine as the 101ps version, but has a restricted throttle body)
1.4 = 103ps/101bhp
1.6 = 110ps/109bhp
1.8 = 117ps/115bhp
1.8 = 135ps/134bhp (only fitted to the TF 135)
1.8 VVC = 143ps/141bhp (MGF, Rover 200 Vi, 200 BRM and 25 GTi)
1.8VVC = 160ps/157bhp (TF 160 and ZR 160)
1.8T = 160ps/157bhp (Rover 75/MG ZT)

Great to see it all laid out like that. Talk about confusing on the 1.8!
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-03-2017, 21:20
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Don't forget that the 1.4 and 1.6 use different gearboxes to the 1.8 (and 1.6 MG TF) so you'll need to be changing more than the engine if going big.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-03-2017, 23:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Owens View Post
I want to purchase a new engine to replace my 1.4 in my 2005 ZR
Are you doing this because the engine is broken or because you just want more power?
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-03-2017, 11:07 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Talkingcars View Post
Don't forget that the 1.4 and 1.6 use different gearboxes to the 1.8 (and 1.6 MG TF) so you'll need to be changing more than the engine if going big.
So just to clarify. If i want to replace my current engine (1.4) with a 1.6 or 1.8 from another MG ZR, the engine will go straight in?
But if i want to replace my 1.4 with a 1.6 or 1.8 from a MG TF, i will need to swap the gear boxes also alongside the ECU if i get the 135BHP version.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-03-2017, 11:23 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stargatemunky View Post
Are you doing this because the engine is broken or because you just want more power?
I simply want a bit more power from my car. I was originally going to port and polish the head and also replace the valves for bigger ones;

Inlet valves:
Normal - 27.5
Uprated - 29.0

Exhaust valves:
Normal - 24.0
Uprated -26.0

However, i spoke to Dave from DVAPower DVAPower website and he said that due to the 1.4 having a smaller bore and bigger liners, this is not possible and simply replacing the cams for piper ones would be expensive for ever little gains. He suggested seeking out a 1.8 and do a simple engine swap. From that point on i can do all the above.

See below flow bench comparisons from normal 16v heads to VVC engines and also normal 16v heads within increased valves size

http://www.dvapower.co.uk

Pretty good read

Last edited by Daniel Owens; 11-03-2017 at 11:32.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-03-2017, 12:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkingcars View Post
Don't forget that the 1.4 and 1.6 use different gearboxes to the 1.8 (and 1.6 MG TF) so you'll need to be changing more than the engine if going big.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Owens View Post
So just to clarify. If i want to replace my current engine (1.4) with a 1.6 or 1.8 from another MG ZR, the engine will go straight in?
But if i want to replace my 1.4 with a 1.6 or 1.8 from a MG TF, i will need to swap the gear boxes also alongside the ECU if i get the 135BHP version.
No, all K series 1.4 and 1.6 (except 1.6 MGF) use IB5 or R65 gearboxes.

All MGR manual except the ZT/75 over 1.8 litre (and the 1.6 MGF/TF) since 1985 have used the PG1 gearbox in one version or another.

It is quite involved to swap between the IB5/R65 and PG1.

Unless staying with a 1.4 or 1.6 I would swap the ECU to match the engine.

TBH if you are wanting to do a proper install of a larger engine I'd look for a scrap donor car, ideally a rear end shunt write off and swap over everything needed to make it work.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-03-2017, 12:39 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkingcars View Post
No, all K series 1.4 and 1.6 (except 1.6 MGF) use IB5 or R65 gearboxes.

All MGR manual except the ZT/75 over 1.8 litre (and the 1.6 MGF/TF) since 1985 have used the PG1 gearbox in one version or another.

It is quite involved to swap between the IB5/R65 and PG1.

Unless staying with a 1.4 or 1.6 I would swap the ECU to match the engine.

TBH if you are wanting to do a proper install of a larger engine I'd look for a scrap donor car, ideally a rear end shunt write off and swap over everything needed to make it work.
So apart from the models you mentioned above, all k series 1.4 and 1.6 use IB5 or R65 gearboxes, whilst 1.8 and above use PG1?

Might have to spell out in layman's terms, as my brain has decided not to work today
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-03-2017, 16:50
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Tuning a K Series is an expensive job think I've spend about 3-3.5k to get just over 20bhp. If you really want to do it tho the best engine to start with is the 160 because it has larger ports and valves to start with but it is also slightly more expensive to tune if you replace cams since you need to buy the vvc blanking plates if you replace the cams for piper ones but doin this transforms the engine
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-03-2017, 17:16
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That's pretty much it - if you replace your 1.4 with a 1.6, you have only to change the engine itself, and can keep the gearbox as it is (yours will be a Getrag-Ford IB5 which replaced the R65 from mid 2003).

If you upgrade to a 1.8, you can in theory still use the IB5 gearbox (you would need to use your existing flywheel from the 1.4), but that gearbox isn't really up to taking the extra power from the 1.8, so there is a greater likelihood of a gearbox failure.

If you fit a 1.8 in conjunction with a PG1 gearbox, you will also need to change the gearbox mount, the driveshafts, and gearchange linkages for the PG1 (easiest to source all the parts from a single donor car), as well as needing the engine bay wiring loom and engine ECU if fitting a 1.8 VVC). It is a conversion that lots of people have done, but there is certainly a lot more to it than simply dropping the bigger engine into the engine bay and bolting it down
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-03-2017, 21:28 Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the info guys it has been a great help. I think my best option is to simply sell the car and buy a 160 VVC ZR. Buying a 160 ZR will be cheaper, easier and i will have more HP than upgrading the one i currently have, even to a 1.8... That leads me to this question

How much would a 2005 1.4 Facelift 5 door MG ZR with recent HG and water pump change done at 82K miles go for?
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-03-2017, 19:30
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Don't under estimate the 1.6, it is a cracking engine, good power to
economy ratios, plus they adapt well to mods, we have a member on
here who put a 1.6 lump in his ZR an with exhaust, breathing mods,
cams and a remap is getting almost 140 BHP out of it.
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 15-03-2017, 00:13
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If i'm completely honest here, it'll be cheaper to find a ZR 160 second hand for cheap and then swap the needed parts off your old engine.

It will be the same upfront cost for tuning the stock 1.8, will be less work and you'll still have bits left over to sell.

You'll have the entire engine ready to port it if you want.
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