Normal MG ZR 103ps power/torque curve? - MG-Rover.org Forums
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 29-12-2016, 13:11 Thread Starter
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Question Normal MG ZR 103ps power/torque curve?

The title says nearly all.

Having a new spare ECU very finely remapped by SAWS Tuning (@lolsteve98) on my Rover 25 1.4 103ps, now with Torque Pro and a E327 device I'm able to know my new figures. It would be nice to be compared with.

So I would be delighted if anyone can post a graph / chart with the actual figures of a standard MG ZR 105 before / without remap, made with a good Dyno.

Thanks a lot.
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 29-12-2016, 13:19 Thread Starter
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 29-12-2016, 17:18
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Nice smooth curve on the 103 ps. How does your remap compare?

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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 29-12-2016, 20:14 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gnu View Post
Nice smooth curve on the 103 ps. How does your remap compare?
I hope I'll tell you very soon. I'm to join to-morrow my eldest son in a 130ml journey and back on next Monday.
If I'm not too clumsy with Torque Pro and my E327, I hope I'll be able to have the very figures. @lolsteve98 told me that the max torque will be reached sooner at 3,500 revs in place of the 4,500 in the standard ZR/25.
Actually I hope that the remap will give me nearly similar figures as in the 25 1.6 109ps.
I can already tell, as I told previously in another thread about my remap, that the engine is sensibly much more responsive in the low revs:

ECU well remapped & sent abroad by SAWS Tuning
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 30-12-2016, 07:54
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Cool - hope it goes well.

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 09:20 Thread Starter
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First answer I had yesterday when coming back from my eldest son's.

One moment, driving at 38.52Mph and accelerating in the end of a sloppy corner, my 25 reached 116Nm at 2,200revs.
Given that a standard 25 1.4 103psi not remapped can only reach 123Nm at 4,5kRevs (and 110Nm for a 83psi), I assume that thanks to my remap the engine is working pretty fine!

The only tricky problem is to configure such a powerful app as Torque pro. I had had a previous journey in the morning but I failed recording it. Luckily I succeeded in the afternoon.

I hope tomorrow I shall be able to get some more interesting figures at 3,5kRevs, as @Lolsteve98 told me that now the engine will be able to reach the max torque at 3,5kRevs instead of 4,5. But which one? That's the big question.

To be continued...

EDIT: compared with the standard curve above, a standard 25 1.4 103psi can only reach 103Nm at 2,2kRevs and will reach 116Nm at 3,3kRevs.
I'm already happy!

Last edited by Dorchester; 03-01-2017 at 09:37.
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 07-01-2017, 19:36 Thread Starter
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First figures of the enhanced torque after the remap

Some good new results from my 60ish miles return trip last wednesday.
I recorded the whole journey using Torque that produced 2 charts and 2 .csv files (line #, time, torque, rpm, OBD speed, mph).
Mainly roads (56ml max) and a 7ml (x2) section allowing a 70ml max (in theory - I drove up a little bit!).
I picked up 4 lines from those endless files with those figures:

1h33 - 141.568Nm - 3539rpm - 78.3ml
5h15 - 173.391Nm - 3328rpm - 72.7ml
5h16 - 156.271Nm - 3352rpm - 72.1ml
5h19 - 141.327Nm - 2779rpm - 61.5ml

The ratio rpm/OBD speed in 5th gear, around 22ml/h, looks a bit excessive.
The standard ratio for a R65 gearbox being 19.6ml/h.

I suspect the result mainly coming from the difference between OBD speed & GPS speed.
So for the next recording I changed the speed from OBD to GPS, to get more accurate speed figures. Actually my car made an excess of a very few ml above the 70ml limit, but for example not so many as 78.

But all in all it gives a stunning result regarding the new torque of the car after the remap. Torque improvement at low & medium revs was my only requirement. I have nothing to do with a hp improvement, given my 25 1.4 is not a rally car and that I nearly never go further the 4k revs.
Hence I think @lolsteve98 made an amazing job and that his remap sent me over the moon.
I'm a happy bunny.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-01-2017, 17:15 Thread Starter
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Oops! A conversion Nm -> ft/lb may be easier to be understood in the table above.

1h33 - 104.41 ft/lb - 3539rpm - 78.3ml
5h15 - 127.88 ft/lb - 3328rpm - 72.7ml
5h16 - 115.25 ft/lb - 3352rpm - 72.1ml
5h19 - 104.23 ft/lb - 2779rpm - 61.5ml

EDIT: Given that a standard MG ZR 105 is given for 90.72 ft/lb at 4,500rpm, does the torque improvement make any sense?
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-01-2017, 07:30
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Glad it seems to be working well

One of the main problems with the torque app is the road you test on, if you're going downhill then the "power" will be larger as the car will find it easier to accelerate and uphill will have the opposite so ideally the road needs to be perfectly flat.

Cars make different power on different days due to atmospheric pressure, humidity and air temperature which is why we have correction factors on dynos, although this are often incorrect as well.

Need to be sure the weight input is bang on as well, over specify and it'll seem more powerful.

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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-01-2017, 08:37 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lolsteve98 View Post
Glad it seems to be working well

One of the main problems with the torque app is the road you test on, if you're going downhill then the "power" will be larger as the car will find it easier to accelerate and uphill will have the opposite so ideally the road needs to be perfectly flat.

Cars make different power on different days due to atmospheric pressure, humidity and air temperature which is why we have correction factors on dynos, although this are often incorrect as well.

Need to be sure the weight input is bang on as well, over specify and it'll seem more powerful.
Hello Steve. Thank you for your nice answer.
In fact I think I must give you some more explanations.

The motorway I tested the car on is located on a very flat and plane valley. So neither uphill nor downhill there. And I got the figures above in both directions of the same 7ml section.

Regarding the total weight involved, my 1.2T input looks just a bit underestimated: 1.1T for the car (it is likely the right one) and 0.1T for the driver & the passenger, which looks a bit optimistic regarding my own weight (85kg + 60kg)! So no over specification. Rather the contrary.

At last, regarding atmospheric pressure, humidity and air temperature, I didn't note them very precisely, but wind was unobtrusive and weak, if any, humidity around 60% and temperature around 6 or 7C.

To end with, I assume that dyno curves, made in restricted and severely controlled conditions, and probably artificial but unbiased ones, are smoothed and that disparity and non significant figures are suppressed. Am I wrong?
Because in the real life and on the very roads you seldom press twice the accelerator pedal in the same manner, do you? And I must add that never ever in that case (and others as well) I fully opened the throttle.

EDIT: I must add as well that I have got a K&N filter which I assume helps the engine breathing a little better and the terminal exhaust line of a 1.8 VVC, with a little diameter increase and 2 tailpipes instead of one.

Last edited by Dorchester; 09-01-2017 at 19:05.
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 24-01-2017, 16:50 Thread Starter
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New figures from several journeys I've made recently.
I was surprised to see that my figures recorded on my phone by Torque are not absolutely identical to those readable on Torque website Torque for Android Web OBD log viewer.
I noted some differences here and there and that the irregularity of some figures abnormally going up and down was smoothed, which is a good thing and gives more reliability to the results I had previously given.

Hence from the definite figures of the website I'm glad to say that the best torque I've actually got so far after my remap is 141.568 Nm or 104.41 ft/lb at 3539rpm & 78.3ml per hour, and I should add without crushing the pedal at all, which is a pretty good result for a car that made 81 ft/lb previously before fully opening the throttle body and 90.72 ft/lb after (and at 4500rpm only).

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Yesterday, the new remapped ECU has done very well:

On a straight and flat road I reached 118 ft/lb (or 160 Nm) at 72 mph, the hp being 95.87.
Statistics coming from Torque Pro indeed.

Not too bad for a little 25 1.4, hey?
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 20-02-2017, 07:06 Thread Starter
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Torque Pro graph

Here are picture & graph of my latter journey with the highest figures pointed out:



EDIT: sorry for the scale, I can't get better, it's a printing of the screen.
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 20-02-2017, 07:20 Thread Starter
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A sensibly better graph with better colours:

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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-03-2017, 22:17
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For reference here is another 105 that was on dyno, seeing alot of variation with these engines. Suppose with the age they are the service history/engine health and what not will make a difference.


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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 13-03-2017, 09:28 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lolsteve98 View Post
For reference here is another 105 that was on dyno, seeing alot of variation with these engines. Suppose with the age they are the service history/engine health and what not will make a difference.
Thank you for the pic & information @lolsteve98.
I know that it would be more clarifying to put my 25 now on a dyno to get more objective figures of your brilliant remap.
But I haven't the faintest idea where to go here and I bet I would be charged with a whopping amount of money... to prove what I know & feel already!

Whatever it be I am still stunned by the differences your remap made on the engine: I have now got a fantastic torque as soon as the very low revs (1,5-2k) and can even easily accelerate in 5th gear even on a gentle slope with wife, grandson & luggage, the engine not struggling at all!
That would have been absolutely impossible before your fabulous remap.

Not to say anything when I firmly press on the pedal at 3,5k revs: then, as we say with one of my little grandsons (3 years 2 months) who laughs hearing me, we get a kick in the ass!

Last edited by Dorchester; 13-03-2017 at 09:49.
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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 13-03-2017, 13:21 Thread Starter
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BTW I congratulate you @lolsteve98 for your nice new website that made me very proud of (and my wee bonnie 25 as well), having seen a very well known smiling ECU at the bottom of the main page!

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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 15-03-2017, 22:45
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Excellent work and nice results, looking forward to chatting with Steve
when I convert my R8 Cabby to MEMS3.
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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 16-03-2017, 22:31
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Glad you like it trying to become more professional now we're covering more engines like the L series. Just need to finish Kturbo & start KV6

Looking forward to hearing from you 25x An R8 cabby will certainly be an interesting one, whats the plan in terms of engine choice?

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