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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 07:46 Thread Starter
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K Series Turbo vs T16

Morning All

Just curious, how does the T16 engine compare to the 1.8 K series Turbo unit?
Obviously the former is an older generation engine, but assuming both will happily give over 200bhp.
I know people have dropped the T series into a ZS, but wonder how that compares with a tuned K series ZS?

Thanks

Andrew
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 09:54
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K series is generally regarded as more fragile than the T series.

T series is 200bhp (ish) as standard. K series needs mapping to get to 200bhp (standard is 150 or 160).

When tuning both will ideally need a bigger turbo to go much above 200bhp.
T series will need better pistons before it goes past 250bhp (usually). And new management to go much past 270. New rods are generally recommended above 300.

K series will need new liners above about 220 (usually) and there are not many big power K turbos out there. Many go for aftermarket management.


In standard form the T series is more reliable with engines regularly clocking up 200k without rebuild.
At 200bhp the T series is generally more reliable
Above this it depends on what has been changed and who built it.

K series is a fair bit lighter than T series (as T series has cast iron block).
But the T series probably has the power record at over 700bhp
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 10:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neophyte2006 View Post
..... but assuming both will happily give over 200bhp.
The T series turbo was 200hp as standard, and many people have shown that it can happily cope with the strains of a lot more horsepower than that.

The K4 on the other hand, evolved from an engine that was originally designe to be a maximum of 1.4 litres capacity and about 84hp.

Taking it to 1.8 litres and 160hp (either with the VVC or with the turbo) is already stretching it, and whilst some people have fitted a K series 1.8 turbo and tuned them to the kind of power levels your are talking of, it is very likely to prove a step too far to aim for 200hp+.

MG Rover did experiment with a 1.8T in a couple of ZRs, at least one of which was tuned to somewhere around 200bhp. A member of this forum who was a homologation engineer at Longbridge at the time (Rincewind) got to drive and described it as 'a hoot to drive', but told us that MG Rover limited the 1.8T to 160bhp simply for reasons of engine longevity - they considered that any temptation to push it further in production cars would lead to premature engine failures.

Due to the engine being a 1.4 that had been stretched beyond its original design parameters to make the 1.8, meant there were compromises in the components, not least the thin walls of the 1.8 cylinder liners, necessary because there was not the room in the block to take the bigger bore and retain the same cylinder liner thickness as the 1.4. Not only would the liners be vulnerable under strain, but there is also the resilience of the head gasket to consider Probably going to need to spend big money to safely get the 1.8T to where the T Turbo starts off from.

A 1.8T would probably be more responsive (due to its much lighter weight), but if you want to tune to 200bhp or more, I would think the T series will prove easier to do this with, and more robust.

The biggest drawback to the T series is that it was last fitted to cars built 20 years ago, and people have been relentlessly robbing the engines to put in ZRs in particular for 15 years, so finding a decent condition T series that hasn't already been interfered with (and very likely wrecked) and been driven to the moon and back isn't as easy as finding a reasonably low mileage, good condition 1.8T K series.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 11:35 Thread Starter
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T16 vs 1.8 Turbo

Thanks for the information guys, so if you can find (and that's the challenge) a decent condition T16 (maybe one that's been rebuilt) then that's the ideal


Andrew
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 19:09
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I have driven a ZR 120 (1.8 NASP), a ZR 160 (1.8 VVC) and a 25 with a 1.8
Turbo dropped in it along with ZR suspension and they are all different, I will
say that the 1.8 Turbo has the power from the offset and goes through the
gears a bit quicker, plus turbo's are always a good giggle, the VVC does go
quick though, seen one keep up with a 25 GTi converted to a stock 2.0
T-Turbo but the Turbo had the legs on it, the K is a lot lighter than the T
which adds up, personally i'm a 1.6 Fan lol.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 20:25
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i dont think this has been mentioned but dont you also need the subframes from a rover coupe to sit the T-series engine on? would most likely want a t-series on coil packs too as i think some came as dizzy cap? do they mate up to PG1 gearboxes? you would need beefier springs up front for the extra weight (prolly easily solved with diesel springs)

in the end i took the decision to build up a k-series turbo, not only as it would me much easier to swap a k for a k but also the parts availability for the more modern engines, plus i know my gearbox and front suspension will work and the thing will definitely fit, a remap from k-maps (formally z and f) will get you 200bhp on standard internals and turbo there are rumours of a guy getting 230bhp on standard bits though i think that is in a TF

Remember the k series was used in other cars like the elise, caterhams and a bunch of other kit cars so you can get performance goodies easily, i got a sump baffle and lightened flywheel from eliseparts.com

just my opinion

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 21:37
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Early T16 with dizzy were 180bhp, later ones were wasted spark.

I wasn't impressed with the T16 when compared with the KV6 which I feel is a nicer drive.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 21:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkingcars View Post
Early T16 with dizzy were 180bhp, later ones were wasted spark.

I wasn't impressed with the T16 when compared with the KV6 which I feel is a nicer drive.
Only the 800 got the 180 version. The 220/420/620 turbos all came with the 197 as standard and has both distributor on early cars and wasted spark on later ones.




KV6 sounds nicer but for performance T16 all the way.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 21:47
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Originally Posted by Furryroo View Post
.... dont you also need the subframes from a rover coupe to sit the T-series engine on?
Only if fitting one in a ZR or 25 - 200 coupe subrame won't be a straight fit in a ZS

The T series was fitted to some models of HHR 400, so you would want a subframe from one of those. T series was also normally mated with a PG1.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 22:23
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Yeah Catterall2 had a Rover 400 with a NASP 2.0 T-Series in it, I for one
didn't even know they fitted one in the, which was a nice surprise, car
went really well, what were they about 150 stock ?
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 22:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROVER-25X View Post
Yeah Catterall2 had a Rover 400 with a NASP 2.0 T-Series in it, I for one
didn't even know they fitted one in the, which was a nice surprise, car
went really well, what were they about 150 stock ?
No, only 134 I think but lots of torque.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 02:18
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Yeah it went really well, he used it as a Motorway Cruiser, he was
critical of it at first but then the back box exploded on the M6 and
it was if someone had fitted a boost button as he said it just took
off lol.
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