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post #1 of 71 (permalink) Old 08-01-2017, 21:15 Thread Starter
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To buy or not to buy!

Hi All,

I'm either in totally the wrong place or completely the right place to ask this question!

I have been looking at this: 2004 ROVER 75 DIESEL CONNOISSEUR SE CDTI AUTOMATIC SILVER | eBay

I currently drive a 2012 Mk2 Seat Leon with 40,000 miles on the clock - great car, quick, reliable, good round corners, but zero character - uncomfortable - manual - plastic everything - annoying bongs all the time... and it gets 38mpg driven carefully 32 at 80 (ish!!) on the motorway

Could sell this for 6k+, buy and insure the rover and still be 2k in the black - and then save on fuel.

Do I do it?!

Pros and cons please people.

Do average mileage (250 a week) throughout the year other than biannual trips to France 1000 miles in a day which are tough in the Leon... aches and pains is an understatement - thank god for the french roads.

Help...!

PS. fed up of changing gear in traffic!
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post #2 of 71 (permalink) Old 08-01-2017, 22:19
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I would sooner change gear than gearboxes

Expensive things them Auto boxes and they take the edge off the MPG generally 5-10 mpg which is likely to leave you where you started.

Looks a nice car on the pictures, 3 and a half grands worth? Im not so sure.Once that mileage goes up the price is going to drop like a brick.If it was a long term thing then resale value isnt an issue and it may well pay off.

Nobody can make the decision for you,but if you went for it,id be low balling him with an offer and work back up he wont have a queue of buyers.While we like to look at adverts and like to believe everything is right,it wont be so leave some left for the un foreseen.

The engines themself are a good engine pretty bullet proof as far as im aware.If its right now,theres no reason it wont stay that way for another 150,00.

Anything has to be better than a seat

Good luck,keep us up dated............
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post #3 of 71 (permalink) Old 08-01-2017, 22:40 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JT Dent View Post
Anything has to be better than a seat
You don't have to drive the bouncy thing every day!! Good shout on the price actually now I think about it. One lady owner my a**e...
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post #4 of 71 (permalink) Old 08-01-2017, 22:46
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Must agree with JT DENTS post , looks very nice but way above what they tend to sell for as soon as you put mileage up it will be worth a third of price but if you can steal it may be a good buy in the long term
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post #5 of 71 (permalink) Old 08-01-2017, 23:18
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This one has gone,but to me was a better prospect. If you bought something similar and stuck 20,000 miles on it while keeping it clean in 2 yrs it would have lost very little and been very cheap motoring.

ROVER 75 2.0 CDT CONNOISSEUR 1 PRIVATE OWNER FULL SERVICE HISTORY NOW SOLD SOLD | eBay

I rarely ever buy low mileage cars especially older ones,let someone else take the hit.Often they are no better cars anyway,yet you pay more for them.
Nothing is more destructive to a vehicle than being stood.
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post #6 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-01-2017, 17:29
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Originally Posted by JT Dent View Post
I would sooner change gear than gearboxes

Expensive things them Auto boxes and they take the edge off the MPG generally 5-10 mpg which is likely to leave you where you started
As a previous owner of both a manual and auto CDTis I can offer some genuine experience rather than the generic statement above....

Both the CDTis I owned were ZTs in 135ps tune. In terms of raw performance the manual is quicker and marginally more economically, but both factors are dependant on your driving style and the sorts of journeys you undertake. On average I achieved 39mpg in the auto and 45mpg with manual, but with a heavier bias to stop-start urban driving conditions in the auto.

The main killer with the auto is the extra VED cost due to the heavier CO2 emissions, but then if costs are your priority then the 75 is not the car for you. Instead you can enjoy an easier and more refined driving experience (not to mention more effective off-the-line starts).

The auto is the more reliable transmission of out of the two. While the gearbox is robust, the clutch and its hydraulics are not, and replacement of the dual-mass flywheel (if required) is very expensive. The auto is generally reliable if looked after with timely fluid changes done properly. Gearchange solenoids can fail but as these are mounted externally, they are not too difficult or expensive to replace.

If I was buying a CDTi again I would choose the auto. The slight deficit in MPG and performance are easily offset by the more refined driving experience.
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post #7 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-01-2017, 17:43
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Originally Posted by JT Dent View Post
Nothing is more destructive to a vehicle than being stood.
Maybe not 'nothing', but I agree with the sentiment.

Diesels are designed to do miles. Being stood or do lots of short journeys is not good for any car and potentially very damaging for a diesel engine, and negates the economic benefits of having one.

Personally if I was shopping for a diesel (which incidentally I hope never to do again) I would be looking for a minimum of 6k per year with a target of 8-10kpa.

Tidy, low mileage MGRs are getting rarer and there is a gulf starting to open between these (usually 3K+) and the more average examples (500-1500). Spending more on a low mile minter makes more sense if you intend to keep the car as a cherished future classic than using it as a daily hack imo.
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post #8 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-01-2017, 19:51 Thread Starter
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JT Dent - that car looks very well cared for at 80,000 miles - a steal. You're not wrong about the high price of the other one from shopping around.

Thanks for all of your input - I'm still no further forward as I really like the car, but am unsure as to whether to "risk it" on a 12+ year old car - Engine bulletproof on the diesels, but it's the other parts that I worry about!! Call me crazy, but I like the thought of a car that will last a long time, not that I will keep it forever, just that it will "go" every day when I want it to!

Torn...
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post #9 of 71 (permalink) Old 10-01-2017, 08:32
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Originally Posted by louisj123 View Post
JT Dent - that car looks very well cared for at 80,000 miles - a steal. You're not wrong about the high price of the other one from shopping around.

Thanks for all of your input - I'm still no further forward as I really like the car, but am unsure as to whether to "risk it" on a 12+ year old car - Engine bulletproof on the diesels, but it's the other parts that I worry about!! Call me crazy, but I like the thought of a car that will last a long time, not that I will keep it forever, just that it will "go" every day when I want it to!

Torn...
Age doesnt make a car brittle,the car if right wouldnt be any less likely to be a problem than the one your running.

The bits i would be concerned with is rubber.Anything made of rubber if not stored right will deteriorate the same as caravan tyres do when stood.

That would only take 10 minutes to assess though.If its been stored right there is no reason with a good service (esp )the auto box then nothing would stop me from jumping in it and driving to spain and back.

The bits to look at closely would be belts,pipes and suspension bushes.Rust is also something to look at with low mileage stood cars.

If everything was looked at and properly serviced then i wouldnt look at it any different to anything else.I dont know the cars inheritant issues are,with that engine i doubt theres much.If its the same engine as the 45/400 its bullet proof.

I really dont get the diesel haters,maybe they watch too much BBC,but a diesel car is generally faster,more torque and certainly far far more reliable than petrols,and most certainly rover petrols.Maybe they just read too much crap on forums vut and paste from other forums,who knows but the truth is always in the different sections,and look on any forum esp this one and you will find petrol issue after issue,yet almost nothing for diesels other than the odd split pipes.
A well maintained diesel will go on forever no matter what you do with it.
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post #10 of 71 (permalink) Old 10-01-2017, 09:36
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Originally Posted by JT Dent View Post
I really dont get the diesel haters,maybe they watch too much BBC,but a diesel car is generally faster,more torque and certainly far far more reliable than petrols,and most certainly rover petrols.Maybe they just read too much crap on forums vut and paste from other forums,who knows but the truth is always in the different sections,and look on any forum esp this one and you will find petrol issue after issue,yet almost nothing for diesels other than the odd split pipes.
A well maintained diesel will go on forever no matter what you do with it.
Diesel is fine for long journeys and high annual mileages, but is generally more expensive to maintain for short journeys/low annual usage. The BMW diesel in the 75/ZT is pretty solid (although there is some evidence that perhaps BMW supplied MGR with less well put together units than the ones they used themselves).

There is, of course, the not insignificant matter of the high volume of highly carcinogenic particles emitted in diesel exhaust compared with petrol (something which many diesel fans seem to be in a state of complete denial about) - something those of us who work with diesel engines have been well aware of for decades, but which the real world seems to have only found out about recently.

I wouldn't expect any serious issues with a well looked after and properly maintained 75, and of course, major mechanical failures can and do happen even with new cars - there is an element of luck involved too.
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post #11 of 71 (permalink) Old 10-01-2017, 14:55
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Diesel is fine for long journeys and high annual mileages, but is generally more expensive to maintain for short journeys/low annual usage. The BMW diesel in the 75/ZT is pretty solid (although there is some evidence that perhaps BMW supplied MGR with less well put together units than the ones they used themselves).

There is, of course, the not insignificant matter of the high volume of highly carcinogenic particles emitted in diesel exhaust compared with petrol (something which many diesel fans seem to be in a state of complete denial about) - something those of us who work with diesel engines have been well aware of for decades, but which the real world seems to have only found out about recently.

I wouldn't expect any serious issues with a well looked after and properly maintained 75, and of course, major mechanical failures can and do happen even with new cars - there is an element of luck involved too.
Another forum myth!

How on earth is a diesel more expensive to maintain?
A diesel engine service consists of oil,filter and air filter.Did i miss something?

What you probably are mimicking,is dpf failures due to low miles,but the reality is most dpf failures arnt failures at all its companys that either dont know what they are doing and misdignosing or just taking advantage.

As for particles,its no more than brainwashing people into self induced tax rises.Petrol cars cost more fuel to run,more to tax and more to maintain.They are also slower,take more effort to drive and nowadays noisier than their diesel counterpart.I see no advantage to petrols at all.sluggish unreliable things that need booting to get anywhere and when you do even the smallest of engines turn into thirsty monsters.
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post #12 of 71 (permalink) Old 10-01-2017, 15:59
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Another forum myth!

How on earth is a diesel more expensive to maintain?

As for particles,its no more than brainwashing people into self induced tax rises..
As I said, in denial.

The carcinogenic hazard of diesel exhaust vs petrol is well documented (and scientifically proven).

The historically higher cost of diesels on low mileage usage is also very well documented and widely accepted (higher purchase price of the car, higher price for the fuel, shorter service intervals, and often shorter change intervals for air filters and timing belts/chains). I don't need to go into it in detail, because most of the members of this forum are well aware of the pros and cons.

How many more threads on this forum are you going to derail and provoke an argument in? .
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post #13 of 71 (permalink) Old 10-01-2017, 16:19
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As I said, in denial.

The carcinogenic hazard of diesel exhaust vs petrol is well documented (and scientifically proven).

The historically higher cost of diesels on low mileage usage is also very well documented and widely accepted (higher purchase price of the car, higher price for the fuel, shorter service intervals, and often shorter change intervals for air filters and timing belts/chains). I don't need to go into it in detail, because most of the members of this forum are well aware of the pros and cons.

How many more threads on this forum are you going to derail and provoke an argument in? .
No ,you have been TOLD its been proven but you havnt seen any unbias evidence.You cant possibly have because it wouldnt be possible to obtain it.

Historically? you do talk some tripe.

Yes diesels cost more,they also sell for more and faster.Most of the mileage in this country is done in diesels,why? Cos petrols drink like fish.
An oil change with oil filter for most diesel cars is available at the likes of National tyres for less than 40 all in,and air filter for about a fiver.
Many diesels dont have belts and many diesel service shedules are the other side of 20,000 miles.However,i own a diesel with a belt,it needs changing every 125,000 miles.Of course petrols dont have cam belts ...
Real daunting stuff lol..

Im not provoking an arguement,thats your job,thats well documented lol.
I wont however look on watching others peddle nonsense that amounts to nothing more than personal bias.

Also you wont find diesel owners topping up their oil in between services,All petrol owners do and often.

Last edited by JT Dent; 10-01-2017 at 16:33.
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post #14 of 71 (permalink) Old 10-01-2017, 16:36
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...All petrol owners do and often.
Not true. I am living example in Rover 600 petrol engine that do not need any oil top-up in 21 year old car, between two services. But I do not want to enter into arguing. I am just using this to make warning.

You are actualy the first who mentioned word "haters", which is provoking. After that your post I started looking into this thread closely to see if it will flame-up.

Once again, I am asking all to calm down and stop provoking or I will intervene.
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post #15 of 71 (permalink) Old 10-01-2017, 17:08
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A well maintained diesel will go on forever no matter what you do with it.
Another sweeping generalisation.

It's common myth that diesels can 'go on forever', unless it's another "Trigger's broom" of course. While diesels are inherently more robust than petrols due to the combustion forces at work, the complicated injection, induction and emission control systems mean there are plenty of components to fail.

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Originally Posted by JT Dent View Post
I really dont get the diesel haters,maybe they watch too much BBC,but a diesel car is generally faster,more torque and certainly far far more reliable than petrols,and most certainly rover petrols.Maybe they just read too much crap on forums vut and paste from other forums,who knows but the truth is always in the different sections,and look on any forum esp this one and you will find petrol issue after issue,yet almost nothing for diesels other than the odd split pipes.
Your comments suggest narrow experience with and knowledge of cars.

The environmental impact of diesels are well documented. The tide is turning as Europe wakes up to the damage they cause, with the recent VW 'dieselgate' being the tipping point for this.

A naive political agenda based on co2 emissions has seen diesels rise in popularity. The law makers have created targets for manufacturers to achieve , resulting in the latest-gen diesel engines being astoundingly complex, far more so than their petrol-powered counterparts, to meet the requirements. While diesels are typically litre-for-litre more economical than a petrol equivalent results in lower co2 emissions, neglecting the higher NOx emissions which are far more polluting.

Diesels still have a place for drivers who sit on the motorway day-in day-out, where the benefits of diesel engine fuel economy, low-down torque and cruising ability are realised. But in most other circumstances, diesel engines are becoming more and more irrelevant.
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post #16 of 71 (permalink) Old 10-01-2017, 17:40
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Another sweeping generalisation.

It's common myth that diesels can 'go on forever', unless it's another "Trigger's broom" of course. While diesels are inherently more robust than petrols due to the combustion forces at work, the complicated injection, induction and emission control systems mean there are plenty of components to fail.


Your comments suggest narrow experience with and knowledge of cars.

The environmental impact of diesels are well documented. The tide is turning as Europe wakes up to the damage they cause, with the recent VW 'dieselgate' being the tipping point for this.

A naive political agenda based on co2 emissions has seen diesels rise in popularity. The law makers have created targets for manufacturers to achieve , resulting in the latest-gen diesel engines being astoundingly complex, far more so than their petrol-powered counterparts, to meet the requirements. While diesels are typically litre-for-litre more economical than a petrol equivalent results in lower co2 emissions, neglecting the higher NOx emissions which are far more polluting.

Diesels still have a place for drivers who sit on the motorway day-in day-out, where the benefits of diesel engine fuel economy, low-down torque and cruising ability are realised. But in most other circumstances, diesel engines are becoming more and more irrelevant.
Yes i have a very limited experience of cars,we owned garages when i was growing up,im a trained mechanic and ran garages for many years and bought and sold thousands of cars.As for driving experience ive past 4 different driving tests and covered somewhere between 2 and 4 million miles,many in diesels.
That said ive suffered a few petrols in my time cars from metros,princess,ambassodors and other junk through rotarys RX8 to TT's, 911's and many more so yes i believe i know a little.
On the other side i went through the best diesels as they came available from the 90's,some of the pug powered rover sld,rover 400 bubble, bmw 6 cylinders 325 tds.330d through to recent 335D.
So its fair to say ive seen both worlds and more than most average car drivers ever will.

You have to wonder why so many stupid people choose diesels,maybe they all cant add up or maybe they can.

Diesels are far more reliable,use less fuel,less road tax and importantly use alot less effort to drive due to the massive torque they give.You have to go back to the ninetys for that not to be true.

Its been along time since the M3 330d arguements were regular on bm forums,they came almost none existant when the 330d took hold,the only arguement the petrol lovers could muster,was a better noise.
As most use their cars to go to work the difference between 150mph and 6 seconds 0-60 and 5 seconds was irrelevant is relivant to most is 120 a liter, 20mpg v 45 and running costs.

My 335d



And the diesel bubble that i did 140,000 miles in ,the only engine issue was a split intercooler pipe.



So dont make me out to be daft!
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post #17 of 71 (permalink) Old 10-01-2017, 18:38
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So dont make me out to be daft!
Not my words.

Comparing various old petrol cars with modern best-of-their-kind diesels is not a even comparison as I'm sure you can appreciate. On paper, diesels make a lot of sense, principally because the assorted governing forces have dictated so. I've owned various diesels, and driven many more, and there is no doubt they have many benefits to offer. However to perceive them as a motoring nirvana is misguided.

Let's say tax and BIK wasn't co2-based, and diesel fuel was more expensive (through a NOx tax for example), the financial balance would swing and make diesel far less attractive. The government is changing policy to reflect this, moving away from the diesel-favouring co2 systems, highlighted by the changes to vehicle tax being introduced this April. I can see legislation becoming increasingly less favourable towards diesel cars and manufacturers giving up on the technology (the Japanese have already started).

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You have to wonder why so many stupid people choose diesels,maybe they all cant add up or maybe they can.
I don't think it's fair to call those who choose diesel stupid. A kinder assessment might be 'mindless sheep' perhaps. This may account for the proliferation of diesel-powered Deustche-wagens on our roads at least.
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post #18 of 71 (permalink) Old 10-01-2017, 19:08
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Not my words.

Comparing various old petrol cars with modern best-of-their-kind diesels is not a even comparison as I'm sure you can appreciate. On paper, diesels make a lot of sense, principally because the assorted governing forces have dictated so. I've owned various diesels, and driven many more, and there is no doubt they have many benefits to offer. However to perceive them as a motoring nirvana is misguided.

Let's say tax and BIK wasn't co2-based, and diesel fuel was more expensive (through a NOx tax for example), the financial balance would swing and make diesel far less attractive. The government is changing policy to reflect this, moving away from the diesel-favouring co2 systems, highlighted by the changes to vehicle tax being introduced this April. I can see legislation becoming increasingly less favourable towards diesel cars and manufacturers giving up on the technology (the Japanese have already started).



I don't think it's fair to call those who choose diesel stupid. A kinder assessment might be 'mindless sheep' perhaps. This may account for the proliferation of diesel-powered Deustche-wagens on our roads at least.
I am one of the most car savy driver/owners you will ever speak to.

I cannot remember the last time i lost money on a car.

If petrols were the best bet,id be driving one.Im not because they are not and not by a long way.

The only reason im involved here is because again i was being careful,buying my son a 1.4 Zr as his first car.A car that had covered just 28,000 miles from new by one owner for a few hundred quid wasnt to be sniffed at.Also Parts are almost for nothing,and we will make money on the car when its disposed of probably a year on.
You know as well as i do his ownership of the crappy petrol will be spent with his/mine fingers crossed knowing that HGF is very highly likely and ill have a head gasket to change although all steps to prevent it will be taken with a new rad,thermostat,and water pump.
He will also have to pay through the nose for crap mpg and cane it everywhere to get it going.
HGF, poor mpg,higher tax and being flat wouldnt even be a thought had i gone for a more expensive to insure diesel,but he will get a good diesel as soon as is possible and i will be able to relax my tools.

Im not interested in crap thats peddled on the bbc regarding Invisible NOX. Reliability,drivability,and cost is what matters.For now petrols dont cut it.Unfortunatly the system has my lads arm up his back,but not for long.


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post #19 of 71 (permalink) Old 10-01-2017, 22:17
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I would sooner change gear than gearboxes ............
Given the choice I'd rather have an auto for long distances.
Looked after an autobox will last the life of the car.

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I am one of the most car savy driver/owners you will ever speak to.

I cannot remember the last time i lost money on a car.

If petrols were the best bet,id be driving one.Im not because they are not and not by a long way.
We are getting to the nub of it, we are all idiots driving Rovers or MGs and you are here to put us all right, I look forward to your son getting a new car and us having peace again.

IMHO diesel is for working, petrol is for fun.
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post #20 of 71 (permalink) Old 10-01-2017, 23:15
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Given the choice I'd rather have an auto for long distances.
Looked after an autobox will last the life of the car.



We are getting to the nub of it, we are all idiots driving Rovers or MGs and you are here to put us all right, I look forward to your son getting a new car and us having peace again.

IMHO diesel is for working, petrol is for fun.
You think my 300 odd bhp,700nm of torque diesel car isnt fun? You need to come out of the ninetys mate.

Hey if you want a cheap car,Rovers are just the job.Keep you busy at weekends too

I know you will miss me when ive gone.If it gets too quiet theres plenty of life on FB.
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