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3K views 34 replies 8 participants last post by  Roverlike 
#1 ·
So this came up for a good price and I was after a daily so thought why not!

MG ZT CDTi 135 in goodwood green (?)

Being a rover it has (alot) niggles.

So far on the list of fixed/fixing:

Cruise control - clutch pedal sensor had come loose, pushed back in and bang! cruise is working.
Flat as a fart under 2.5k - Duff maf sensor, mapped it out and we now have power
Not geting up to temp - Thermostat on these stick open so fitted an inline one, now we're toasty.
Rear tyre spending more time deflated than inflated - New tyre £56
Rubbing/knocking from front - New shock as the old one has "imploded" leaving no fluid left inside
EGR valve - full of crap (no surprise there) so whipped it off and cleaned out. Gross. Also mapped out
Intercooler O rings- upgraded ones fitted.
Scratches and chips - Big bottle of geen tcut and scratch repair pen to try and get it looking somewhat presentable again.
Washer jets - not working, removed pump and cleaned off the slime on the filter and pump line. Now have clean windows.
Wind noise from the drivers side window area - Think some of the trim has gone, tried covering with black silicone to no effect


It's not all negative though I spent some time with friends at their diesel tuning company the other week where they walked me through the ECU as its very similar to the one used in the e46 320d
As some of you might know know I've been working on remaps for the MEMS 3 engines however now thanks to their help it seems CDTi support will soon be on the list. Just need to find the sweet spot between power and excessive smoke. So far very happy with results, got a nice bit of poke now which makes it very usable.

However the recent heavy rain has reached the ECU or something and the car cut out. Drained the plenum (wasnt that full) and left it to dry overnight. Also noticed there was a cover missing that goes above the ECU and pollen filter. Next day it seemed fine, got 10 minutes down the road and bam! Cut out, leaving me stranded waiting for RAC. Now trying to decide the best course of action of either try drying it out again properly, have the old ECU repaired or get a second hand one "virginised" to work with the EWS

 
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#4 ·
That'd be too easy wouldn't it ;)

Had the ECU replaced and recoded with a t4. Not the cheapest route but at least means it back on the road. Also had a '160' file put on it, quick spin and it was better than the 135 file but not by much.

So we put it on the rollers, made 134hp ..oops. Possibly a duff MAF sensor isn't helping as it wasn't switched off but looking over the file we weren't impressed. Areas of the maps changed needlessly and tables that need changing were not.
Quick adjustments and got it up to ~149 before the clutch started having issues, no doubt an original so not surprised. Had it held then could have tried pushing for more but as its the daily its been put it back to '135' which it and I are happy with.

 
#6 ·
My bank balance says otherwise lol

You could look at how its done on the 320d ECU they're very similar. Even down to the point where there's boost data even though it uses a mechanical waste gate same with the HDi 90 engines..but thats all you're getting out of me ;)

Sure it was a 160 file as watched him put it on, a little disappointed really as thought it was quite well received by the community. Is there different variations or are they all the same?
 
#12 ·
It is a dark art of sorts, but then it needs to be otherwise everyone would have a go without spending the time and effort to understand the what and why. There is info out there for the diesels, especially for the PD engined stuff hence why everyone seems to be able to do a remap for them. But being able to do it and doing a good job of it are two different things. Seen a lot of 1.9 PD engine's smoking their nuts off because of people just going +20% more fuel or asking for turbo destroying boost pressures. Recently had to fix a 'remapped' 1.4 with cams as it was running dangerously lean then flooding the engine over 5k rpm.
If £10 and 5 minutes of your time is all you're willing to invest then you can understand why people wouldnt want to give thousands of £ worth of data and countless hours of their time away for free? I'm not trying to sound like a dick but please see the other side of the coin.

I've haven't seen a 200 version yet but I do have the 150 75 and 160 ZT versions and upon comparing them I've got an idea of how to go about it. Just need a test rig to confirm
 
#13 ·
As I say quite often in various places, tuning as a hobby is a bit like being a heart surgeon for a hobby.

Nothing illegal or wrong with it but the kit is expensive, the required understanding is vast, the theory needs accompanied with experience in equal measure, because it's popular there's a lot of people playing at it. Playing at it is a good phrase to use, because when it comes to the real challenge (i,e making an ecu do something that it isn't designed to do, or finding a map or technique that isn't labelled in any forum, damos or official supporting documentation) then one will ask the forums and wait (sometimes for ever) for a solution to come to them, others will go to vast lengths, buy an ecu, buy a car even (i've been there), put in a solid weeks testing and experimenting and actively instigate the development of a solution.

I (and many other tuners) support a lot of other tuners, and we get support back so it's not a case of all tuners hate or distrust all tuners. What it really boils down to is people who do work and put in the expense don't like giving things away to people who are somewhat allergic to certain aspects of tuning (expense and work).

Learning the ropes doesn't need access to information, that's the beauty of it. The skill of developing the right tests to ask the right questions is more than half of it.
 
#14 ·
I do things differently I take the easy route.
Lets say I wanted to post up the MAF delete code myself.
This is what I'd do.
I'd get a map from an eBay tuner,they offer 2 modifications FREE.
First I'd get the map,then ask for MAF delete as my first extra. Then I'd drop the two into a hex editor and identify the difference between them. I would then have the code I wanted.
Ask for EGR delete and then I'd identify the difference again and I'd have that code.
Tuning is so easy if you just think about what you want not how to do it.>:)>:)>:)>:)>:)>:)>:)
 
#18 ·
I do things differently I take the easy route.
There'in lies the difference between yourself and a professional. You might learn how to do it but you wouldn't know why it became switched off, which would bother me.

You might also find alot of "tuners" are secretive because they're not really tuners just re-sellers or 'slave' tool owners who just plug it in, email the file off, flash it back on and collect the cash. So might not know whats really going on.

Example, ZS with 135 cams had tune done by a man in a van. After two attempts the owner gave up and came to me, looking at the file it was...stock. Asking the owner about what had been done and the 'man in the van' had apparently been adjusting the torque limiter...which it doesn't have. So either he was changing the wrong thing or was doing nothing and thought the term sounded good.
 
#15 ·
I suppose it's a case of pick where you want to feed in the pond, top, middle or bottom!

That's one thing I do like about working in this industry, you don't need anything in terms of material qualifications etc or money, and you can pretty much pick where you place yourself.
 
#17 ·
There's different ways to interpret values, my 75 was pretty beat up but what it's brought me from an R+D point of view will be a few grand at least. So in my own little twisted way I will always look at it as a valuable star even though i'd have struggled to get more than a few hundred quid for it towards the end.

Value is just opinion and perception really so it can't be debated. If your cars worth 600 to you, and not worth investing a lot into then that's pretty much that. :) Valuation is a very personal thing really, there is an element of reality to it, you can't always sell at what you perceive the value to be, but in the simplest of terms if its not being sold, then value is exactly where you put it.
 
#21 · (Edited)
That's been up a while as well got a revision that's 10 days old.
Think a storm is coming.>:)
Like I said they hate each other.>:)>:)
AND they all hate me because I think they should be FREE!>:)
EDIT:You can save £25 if you go with this one,same seller.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MG-ZR-ZS-...-4-1-6-1-8-VVC-105-120-135-160-/131968361137?
I think the shortcomings that have been mentioned within the 160 should be quoted so that they can defend themselves? seems only fair!
 
#22 ·
Okay I'll try and clear this up quick with minimal promoting as I have not yet signed up as a trader so would not want to step on people like Dakta toes who pay for that right. I have been in talks about getting to that stage but right now it hasn't gotten there yet.

Those adverts are mine, eBay listing is not my preferred method of promotion as it seems a little unprofessional however it does help spread the name. Revisions were done to improve the look of the ad.

The other ad is for the MEMS3 petrol, the diesel units are a little more work and as such priced accordingly.

Personally do not hate other tuners and I know a few others in the industry who don't hate other 'proper' tuners and instead see competition as a need to constantly improve their product. Which is how it should be to provide the best results for customers.

I don't hate you Shawn but I wish you'd appreciate not everything in life is free, not just for greed but for quality. I could show you the basics for designing a steel beam, does this mean you should then go design a multistory building in London? Probably not as you'd end up doing alot of damage.
 
#23 ·
I know as much as I want to know. I'm not looking to sell anything(I'm retired). I have actually been quietly giving away a 170hp map that I came across last year. Some tuners had an argument and a 170 map fell out>:)
It was up for a day on a tuning site and I grabbed a copy. Kris saw it and had it taken down saying it was stolen from a "real tuner" or words to that effect.:grin:
But you know the internet once its out there its out there for good.

Reading between the lines then Steve,you took a 160 for a dyno and the dyno guys were not impressed and said it was more like 134hp. They then had a poke about in it and improved it.
You now have a really powerful map that your clutch can't handle and your looking to flog copies of?
I'm OK with all of that I have always said if you buy a map its yours to do what you like with.
Should maybe look at a digital download version for Rover/MG members in other countries :wink:
 
#24 ·
Shawn, I've tried being friendly but now you're bordering on slander. Is this because I won't give you stuff for free?
The 160 map was dynod and made 134 hp the 'runs' were overwritten though when doing the improved version so wasn't saved as it was done back to back.
The dyno place looked over it with me as they were interested and we spotted that limiters had been missed so although the request for fuel had been increased the map wouldn't allow for that fuel to be injected in some cases.
I made up a new version, with some discussions about about rail pressure and what maps to use to control the fuel. They have their preference's I have my own.
Any mapping I do would not be a generic flash it and jobs done. People have different preferences to how much smoke they're willing to tolerate or how well will the clutch hold etc. I understand what I'm changing and not just happy with "that'll do" amount of knowledge.
 
#25 ·
Kris saw it and had it taken down saying it was stolen from a "real tuner" or words to that effect.
Ah yes I remember this.

Every time I tune a car I read the ecu and I store a copy, it doesn't matter whether it's been tuned before or whether completely original, sometimes the customer doesn't even know - but we always take a copy.

Very few (I don't think any?) have ever asked me to return their car back to how it was, but we do this so that we can if requested. Now, my software has a nice little feature where if you start a project with a file that is a 100% match for another file, it will ask whether you want to load the new file into a new project, or continue in the old project.

The file in question was a 100% match for a car I'd worked with previously, so essentially you were making available software developed by another individual, and the context of your post made it clear that it wasn't something the two of you had agreed on. If I was incorrect then the issue raised would be easily defended to the admin team.

I'm friendly with the admin on most genuine chip tuning sites, and yours isn't the only post I have taken down, and I'm not the only one who keeps an eye out for others either. I have been accused of file theft myself and it's something we defend agressively - it's not something we do and others shouldn't do it either. We cannot stop it all but where we see it we will do whatever we can, which isn't always a lot, but every little helps.

We can't change peoples attitudes when it comes to stealing off others, but we obviously did get rid of your link, and whilst it's nothing personal it will be something we do every time I (or any other decent members of the community) see this happen.

As I've said before - the dark arts of chiptuning isn't beyond the reach of anyone willing to put in the man hours, so there's no hard excuse for making public efforts made by others.

Whether these efforts are any good in anyones opinion is not relevant.

Additionally, my attitude towards this isn't on a 'commercial tuner against hobbyist' slant - I have seen some considerably large commercial tuning companies try the same trick and they get exactly the same treatment.
 
#26 ·
Ah yes I remember this.

I'm friendly with the admin on most genuine chip tuning sites, and yours isn't the only post I have taken down, and I'm not the only one who keeps an eye out for others either. I have been accused of file theft myself and it's something we defend agressively - it's not something we do and others shouldn't do it either. We cannot stop it all but where we see it we will do whatever we can, which isn't always a lot, but every little helps.
Hang on a minute I didn't put it up but found it there.>:)
Are you saying it was your tune?
 
#27 ·
Nope, I'm saying it's an identical match with the readout taken from a tuned car I've worked with, prior to working with it.

I don't know who the author is, obviously I could perhaps make an educated guess, but it doesn't really matter.

I get on well with other tuners generally (in fact I'm working on a joint effort with one today), but it all hinges on respect.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Not surprised at all at the results you got on the Dyno Steve given the cars previous abuse by it's previous owners, that and the fact the when I was talking to the chap at the tuning place he said "we'll see how much it really gives shall we" or words to that effect.
As said previously in this tread each tuner has their own way of doing things and often they do things differently so they'll often say things can be done better.
Put the same car on different dyno's and you'll get diffent results :wink:
Rolling Roads Explained | Revo Technik

Dissing someone else's tune and promoting your own and the services of your mates Tuning business isn't difficult, but it's more than a little ungrateful seeing that I got you out of the mire by getting your car running at short notice so you could get to work.

What I will say is that the 160 tunes have been independantly tested by customers on various Dynos across the country and found to be what we claim them to be. 100's of our customers who have had the 160 map applied and are very happy with it I think speaks for itself.
The tunes aren't made for maximum power they're a nice safe limit, remember the crank in the M47R is a cast one not forged as in the BMW models so it's better to be safe than sorry. :wink:

We could have easily increased the power in fact we have tunes that are far higher but these are less smooth and create more smoke.

As you said earlier it all depends what you're after, how much smoke you're willing to put up with and potential transmission/clutch problems

Russ

P.S still trying to get stuff for free and rocking the boat I see Shawn ;)
 
#29 · (Edited)
P.S still trying to get stuff for free and rocking the boat I see Shawn ;)
Its only changing some numbers at the end of the day!>:)

I'm not trying to get FREE stuff just for me but the community as a whole.That MAF delete code if put up on this thread for ALL to use would save people buying a new MAF.

EDIT:AND the TOAF guys could build it into TOAF, so MAF delete could be done with one click. Now that I've said that I dare say they will look into it and get it done.:grin:
 
#31 ·
Also begs the question why Bigruss42 should accuse you of rocking the boat when all you’re trying to do, in Shawn fashion, is help the community. Bit like Rover54 who went around helping people (the community) with his T4 at no cost other than asking for a contribution for petrol expenses but this didn’t go down at all well. Can’t have T4 owners helping others with no “fixed prices” paid.

But when Rover54 rocked the boat, Bigruss42 saw that in the interest of stability, poor Rover54 had to be thrown overboard. Cries of protest were immediately silenced by the ever so neural moderators bound by their purse strings. Survival of the fittest, no room for a frail, sickly old man.

So yes, I can see that the poster comes across as ungrateful if indeed you got his car running, but life isn’t always fair is it? Or is it? They say what goes around comes around.

And thankfully I have no interest in tuning, my V6 fixed remotely by Rover54 still functions perfectly and has received a bit of extra care thanks to TOAF. And when my friend recently wanted an upgrade to his 1.8T then I advised him to get the "original tuner’s” upgrade, Kmaps now, good customer service and he’s very happy with his 200hp engine which he just took for a spin to Norway and back.

And Shawn, I hope the TOAF guys can come out with their own map, or verify the status as bug free or not. However I’d love to see the 1.8 limitations fixed in the next edition.

It’s soon Christmas.
 
#33 ·
I've not heard such misguided claptrap in some time :surprise:

I was only this morning speaking to Ed ;)

His is departure from the OC site was entirely of his own volition, furthermore Ed has a sense of humour, and if you care to ask him why I was calling him today you would understand why I had no problem with what he was trying to achieve on the OC, but the idea of politicising the club with commitee groups was his eventual downfall.

The OC is not a democracy, it is run by a set of individuals who enjoy the cars, and that is that.

You seem to think that trader status on the OC entitles you to having more "sway" than any other member.....let me assure you that is most certainly not the case ;)

In his own words HERE

Now I'm sure you would like to take a rest from flogging this particular dead horse ;)

Brian :D
 
#32 · (Edited)
Do you honestly think for one moment that I have any sway with what happens or doesn't happen on the Owners club site if so then you're sadly mistaken.
I had nothing at all to do with the removal of Rover54 from the owners club site, that was his own doing by insisting that he wanted the club to be run very differently and ended up in arguement with the Senior moderators and the Director/owner of the club. If you wish to look at his various posts on there you will find that this is the case. Introducing The New Club Structure On Trading & Selling - The 75 and ZT Owners Club Forums
If you read through that I think you'll find he asked to leave of his own accord.
Why would I be so worried about someone operating 100's of miles from me? My only concern was his lack of experience and that at that time that he didn't understand how the various vehicle systems worked in relation to each other (His words not mine).

Russ
 
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