For some, like me, there's no known cure. - Page 3 - MG-Rover.org Forums
 3Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
post #41 of 53 (permalink) Old 11-03-2017, 19:18 Thread Starter
Supporter
 
MGJohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Gloucestershire - Cotswold Cockney
Car: MG Montego Turbo; 620ti x3; MG ZS; MGF and MG ZT 1.8t x2; MG ZT-T x1
Posts: 21,205
More progress.

More progress today. Fitted new Timing Belt and used a CRANKshaft Pulley I had painted using some old dregs in the bottom of a couple of Tins of Hammerite. In fact I made a small batch few years ago and this is the last of that batch. Locating that little slot in the circumference of the Crankshaft Pulley is always difficult. Painting the Pulley in this way means the "Safe" engine position can be located and set at a glance. No more groping about in the dark for that little slot. :~



Also, very time consuming accessing this little 8mm Timing Belt Cover Bolt located deep behind the Power Steering Pump Drive Belt Tensioner which needs to be partially undone and move aside.. :~



I attach a series of other images that I took during the work.

Apparently ... in a parallel universe MGJohn drives .........A.......

B>>M>>W ....

Arrrrrggghhhhh......... ......
MGJohn is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #42 of 53 (permalink) Old 15-03-2017, 18:25 Thread Starter
Supporter
 
MGJohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Gloucestershire - Cotswold Cockney
Car: MG Montego Turbo; 620ti x3; MG ZS; MGF and MG ZT 1.8t x2; MG ZT-T x1
Posts: 21,205
Thumbs up Fired up for the first time today.

Took advantage of the better weather conditions over the past two days and made good progress. Today saw beautiful cloudless blue skies and continuous warm sunshine. So in between the races at the nearby Cheltenham Racing Festival on TV, finally got it 99% back together and ready for that first post-repair start up. Here are the various checks and adjustments whilst fitting the new timing belt. The most important check being turning the engine over manually to ensure no metal to metal contact. Easier to do that with Spark Plugs removed to avoid struggling against compression. Here is a series of images showing some of the fitting and checking work :~



Belt after several manual rotations of the engine :~



Setting the Timing Belt Tensioner ~ will check it again after a few miles use as it usually moves with use. :~



My "Third Hand" holding the Polyvee Auxiliary Drive belt Tensioner clear to enable the Belt to fit over all the Pulleys. :~



View of the "Third Hand" from above showing ample slack in the Belt enabling it to slip over the Alternator Pulley. The Spring in those tensioners are very strong... :~



Then comes the "acid test" :~

View My Video

It lives again! ...

My camera has picked up those engine noises massively. Actually, to my naked ears, the engine settled down later to a nice pleasant rustle from the Valve Gear.... not a trace of "Tappet" noise. Looks like the Diesel Fuel Lubricant has acted quickly.

Apparently ... in a parallel universe MGJohn drives .........A.......

B>>M>>W ....

Arrrrrggghhhhh......... ......
MGJohn is offline  
post #43 of 53 (permalink) Old 19-03-2017, 22:22 Thread Starter
Supporter
 
MGJohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Gloucestershire - Cotswold Cockney
Car: MG Montego Turbo; 620ti x3; MG ZS; MGF and MG ZT 1.8t x2; MG ZT-T x1
Posts: 21,205
A Start ~ Stop Day today.

Despite finding several more minor bodges which needed sorting prior to putting the wheel back on and getting the car off the Axle Stands, I was able to take the car for a gentle six mile run to get the Diesel Fuel Lubricant to do its work cleansing any old oil sludge remaining from previous ownership.

I was delighted with how the car ran and in the event, those six miles extended to ten including an eventful stop to put a few Gallons of Shell's 99 Ron to freshen up the few gallons of fuel in the tank which is at least six months old. I parked up the car near a local beauty spot and took a couple of images :~





The event? After filling with fresh fuel, the engine would not start. Nothing although the instruments lit up as usual. No clicks or .. anything. Suspecting the old battery had expired, I phoned my son and asked him to bring out a couple of good spare batteries and some jumper leads. Still dead and so we pushed it to one side at the Shell Petrol Station after telling the staff we have a dead car and will be back to take it away.

We returned in my trusty 620ti with fast fit tow shaft I made up years ago. Soon had the car towed off the Petrol Station with my younger son steering the car. I had mentioned I would pull up on a safe quiet road and swap drivers. He would tow me up to 10-15mph and I would drop the clutch in 2nd gear with ignition on. Immediate fire up. So with disassembled the Tow Shaft set up and drive both cars home.

Dark now so I allowed the engine to cool for about and hour then placed a large bowl under the Sump. Removed the 15mm Sump Plug. The Diesel Fuel quickly drained but I'll leave it for several hours so that most of the stuff will trickle out. Then in will go some good quality ( GM ) 10-40 Semi-synthetic. This little Work Light was great help in the dark.



Earlier, one of the previous ownership bodges was a taped up Front Brake Pad Sensor. I carefully undid the Cable Tie and the Electrical Tape intending to fit it whilst the Wheel was removed. Then I saw why it had been taped up. The very fine connector wire had been broken and taped up out of the way. I'll buy and fit a new one. They are not very expensive. Bit of a pain to fit though.



Whilst reassembling the various connections and Wheel Arch Fittings in their correct locations, I spotted another Connector Taped up. This was loose and above the PAS Pump Assembly. No idea where it's meant to be connected. Is there a low PAS Fluid Level Sensor? Up against the clock now so not much time to solve that little loose end mystery. Here's that loose end... :~



Tomorrow if time allows, I will check the Starter Motor, its Solenoid and various Electrical Connections including Earths. If that draws a blank, I'll remove the Starter from a SORN Car and fit that. I'll also check and test the original Starter when off the car. Shame about the non-starter. Doing so well with progress up to that point and already thinking about the several cosmetic issues that need my attention. Nothing serious but, as usual all time consuming. These thing are sent to try us according to some.

Oh well. Tomorrow is another day ... as they also say ... .....

Apparently ... in a parallel universe MGJohn drives .........A.......

B>>M>>W ....

Arrrrrggghhhhh......... ......
MGJohn is offline  
 
post #44 of 53 (permalink) Old 20-03-2017, 00:10 Thread Starter
Supporter
 
MGJohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Gloucestershire - Cotswold Cockney
Car: MG Montego Turbo; 620ti x3; MG ZS; MGF and MG ZT 1.8t x2; MG ZT-T x1
Posts: 21,205
There's more to report on Sunday's activities.

Four months exposure to the winter weather had a detrimental effect on the Front Brake Disc. Light corrosion and a patch showing the outline of the Pad. Disc was partially seized until using a stout Screwdriver in the Ventilation web, I was abled to manually break that grip of seizure.

Then using a worn File and worn Wire Brush, with the car in 1st Gear and engine at idle, a couple of minutes had the Disc looking much better. A few Brake applications when driving should improve it further. This is how I worked. If you try this, do PLEASE think about what you are doing. It can be dangerous if you drop your guard briefly. Exercise great care. You do not want to have a ten hour wait at your local A&E... For those reasons and others, I am NOT recommending this process. You have been warned.

Engine at idle in 1st gear


By the way, after a few rotations, all the doors locked. Two of my cars have this security facility which has its uses. However, if you only have ONE Key, you will lock yourself out if your 75/ZT has this security facility activated. So another warning. If you only have ONE key, lower the driver's window. Fortunately I do have a second key so no harm done. Must remember that. One of my cars has only one active key but I had a blank empty Key cut as a safeguard for that car pending getting another active Key set up.

Apparently ... in a parallel universe MGJohn drives .........A.......

B>>M>>W ....

Arrrrrggghhhhh......... ......
MGJohn is offline  
post #45 of 53 (permalink) Old 20-03-2017, 17:25 Thread Starter
Supporter
 
MGJohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Gloucestershire - Cotswold Cockney
Car: MG Montego Turbo; 620ti x3; MG ZS; MGF and MG ZT 1.8t x2; MG ZT-T x1
Posts: 21,205
Good day Sunshine... Immediate Start

Continuous heavy rain until early afternoon. Then fine Sunshine. Lifted the bonnet and in the superb light, looked behind and below the Inlet Manifold at the Starter Motor. One of the Solenoid Spade Connectors had become detached. That's why the car's engine wouldn't start! Reattached it and turned the Key. Engine burst into life.

Moral, ALWAYS check the simple things first, even in the dark! Convinced it was faulty, I was all prepared to remove the good starter from an SORN car. In the event, a few seconds to check and fix...



That drained Diesel Fuel from the sump overnight had done its job. It came out very black even after only ten miles of light running. Tipped it into the now empty GM ( Bought from local Vauxhall Dealership ) 10-40 Semi-Synthetic Engine Oil plastic bottle after filling the engine with the new oil. Will take old to the local Council Waste facility along with some other old engine oil in other plastic bottles. These images illustrate what is left in the engine after a routine engine oil change.





I want that remnant sludge out of my engines. It makes a BIG difference as I soon found when I drove the car later today. Nice near silent rustle from the Valve Gear at Idle ... no clacketty-clack Diesel Type noises from varnish sticking Cam Followers.

Then with all the tools cleared away, drove the car to a nearby garage and checked and adjusted the Tyre Pressures. One was showing only 18psi .. not bad since I last checked them months ago. Then drove home the long way ... adding about ten miles to the trip. As I left the Filling Station after the tyre check, a sleek Mercedes pulled up alongside at the Traffic Lights. Merc driver edging forward ready for the Traffic Lights change from Red..... Oh yeah. Now very confident in the car thought I would participate. The Merc driver was a millisecond or two quicker off the mark than my ZT-T. I held onto near the red line in first, second and part of third mainly alongside the Merc when my car edged in front and then the Merc dropped back quickly. This engine is good... . Better, far better than I expected. Back home I checked the Top Coolant Hoses for excess pressure and an hour later, undid the Coolant Expansion Bottle Cap. Just the barest trace of a "Shuush" sound as the little remaining Cooling System Pressure was released. Good sign that with a still warm engine and the coolant level was where it should be.

Delighted with the way this car is shaping up now. I got some SPEEDFLush ready to put into the cooling system. Then I remembered I had fitted an Elastomer Cylinder Head Gasket to this engine and that aggressive Cooling System Flush may be too aggressive for the Elastomer Seals. .. about that but, will not risk it. I will use one Dishwasher Tablet in the water only currently in the system then drain and flush. Then fit 50-50 "Blue" Antifreeze mix. I like my engines and their cooling systems to be very clean in their unseen insides.

Then the car will be my daily driver for a few weeks whilst I watch it like a Hawk.

There's one mechanical job remaining. When the nearside wheel arch liner dropped out and went under the front wheel, it tore out the ABS Sensor Cable. I have a new replacement but, reading some of the ABS fitting stuff on this and others sites it's not a task I look forward too.

Apparently ... in a parallel universe MGJohn drives .........A.......

B>>M>>W ....

Arrrrrggghhhhh......... ......
MGJohn is offline  
post #46 of 53 (permalink) Old 20-03-2017, 21:34
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Northumberland, Scotland less than a mile away
Car: Rover 25 (05 ), Rover 45 (05)
Posts: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by MGJohn View Post


There's one mechanical job remaining. When the nearside wheel arch liner dropped out and went under the front wheel, it tore out the ABS Sensor Cable. I have a new replacement but, reading some of the ABS fitting stuff on this and others sites it's not a task I look forward too.
From similar experience on our 25, I`d take the fresh hub route. Some on ebay from 40.
deebee is offline  
post #47 of 53 (permalink) Old 21-03-2017, 21:40 Thread Starter
Supporter
 
MGJohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Gloucestershire - Cotswold Cockney
Car: MG Montego Turbo; 620ti x3; MG ZS; MGF and MG ZT 1.8t x2; MG ZT-T x1
Posts: 21,205
Thumbs up Been considering doing that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deebee View Post
From similar experience on our 25, I`d take the fresh hub route. Some on ebay from 40.
Yes, had that in mind since searching for clues when it first happened. Any links handy for the 40 item? I will search anyway. I still plan to try removing the old Sensor first on the car and if that proves difficult, then a hub could be a possible long stop back up.

Apparently ... in a parallel universe MGJohn drives .........A.......

B>>M>>W ....

Arrrrrggghhhhh......... ......

Last edited by MGJohn; 21-03-2017 at 22:04.
MGJohn is offline  
post #48 of 53 (permalink) Old 21-03-2017, 21:56 Thread Starter
Supporter
 
MGJohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Gloucestershire - Cotswold Cockney
Car: MG Montego Turbo; 620ti x3; MG ZS; MGF and MG ZT 1.8t x2; MG ZT-T x1
Posts: 21,205
More loose ends and details sorted today. Plus a loose mystery Connector.

Spent an hour on the car today in between brief periods of heavy Hailstone downpours. Yes, soaked again ...

I refitted the Top Timing Belt Cover after checking the Belt tensioner Adjustment was still as it should be. Looked OK.



Then on with the upper Timing Belt Cover :~



Added one Dishwasher Tablet to the Water ( only water at the moment ) in the cooling system :~



Finally, here's a loose end yet to be tied. This loose Connector above the PAS Pump Location in the 1.8t I discovered when finalising things in that area a couple of days ago. No obvious things nearby which it may be connected to. Any ideas what its for? I do know that on many cars there will always be some unused connections on the Electrical Loom for extras on higher specification cars. Any thoughts?



Then took a small parcel to the Post Office in the car. Guess what... on the way back the Engine Check Light became illuminated... typical ... ... back to the drawing board. ...

Apparently ... in a parallel universe MGJohn drives .........A.......

B>>M>>W ....

Arrrrrggghhhhh......... ......

Last edited by MGJohn; 21-03-2017 at 22:02.
MGJohn is offline  
post #49 of 53 (permalink) Old 22-03-2017, 10:59
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Northumberland, Scotland less than a mile away
Car: Rover 25 (05 ), Rover 45 (05)
Posts: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by MGJohn View Post
Yes, had that in mind since searching for clues when it first happened. Any links handy for the 40 item? I will search anyway. I still plan to try removing the old Sensor first on the car and if that proves difficult, then a hub could be a possible long stop back up.
PM with links sent
deebee is offline  
post #50 of 53 (permalink) Old 22-03-2017, 12:30 Thread Starter
Supporter
 
MGJohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Gloucestershire - Cotswold Cockney
Car: MG Montego Turbo; 620ti x3; MG ZS; MGF and MG ZT 1.8t x2; MG ZT-T x1
Posts: 21,205
Quote:
Originally Posted by deebee View Post
PM with links sent
Thank you. Reply sent.

Apparently ... in a parallel universe MGJohn drives .........A.......

B>>M>>W ....

Arrrrrggghhhhh......... ......
MGJohn is offline  
post #51 of 53 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 11:54
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Sandnes, Norway
Car: Rover 75 2.0 V6 Auto
Posts: 870
Quote:
Originally Posted by MGJohn View Post
Thanks for the Birthday wishes.

PLEASE NOTE> I am NOT recommending this process only saying it has worked for me and this will be the fourth time I've done it.

Allow the old engine oil to drain hot ideally overnight so that most of the stuff comes out of the engine. It will still show the occasional drip of old oil even after having the drain plug removed for over twelve hours. Then put the DIESEL FUEL in the Engine. Don't forget to replace the Oil Sump Drain Plug....

Yes, then drive the car very gently for five six miles. That should be enough to get it up to normal operating temperature. Don't drive silly. No more than 3000-4000 rpm and then only briefly. Then immediately drain it hot. Allow to drain for at least and hour to get 99% out of the engine. You be surprised what that Diesel Fuel will shift. This image shows what the DIESEL FUEL looked like when it went into the engine in the tray on the left, and what it looked like when drained hot after that six mile gentle run.



Note what remains in the Bowl after draining the Diesel Fuel ready for disposal at the local council recycling depot. That harmful muck would remain circulating in the engine without the treatment. :~



What particularly impresses me is the condition of the correct 10-40 Semi-Synthetic after the Diesel Fuel treatment. Even after several hundred miles later, the 10-40 S-S Oil is still clean and clear on the Dipstick.





Over on other car sites I visit, apparently many engines now do NOT have an Oil sump drain plug! Come oil change time, old oil is sucked out of the engine. Yeah ... right.

The first time I tried this was on my first MG ZT 1.8T project three years ago. Bought with suspect so called Cylinder Head Gasket Failure and non-runner owing to FFS. The signs were there with initial checks. Like this :~



With further confirmation. I want all that muck O_U_T!



Three years on, I use that car as a daily driver and it runs like a turbine. Performs impressively and being the first 1.8T ZT I ever drove, I was surprised how well that little power unit copes in such a big car. I love the 1.8 Turbo K-Series. This is the fourth one I've rescued. One of those four has a successful low mileage MG6 engine transplant.

Over on the 75/ZT Club sight, strong opinions suggest the 1.8T is the best engine in the 75/ZT. Yes, better than the KV6s and BMW Diesel versions. The V8 does not count I guess. I found that hard to believe when I first read that. Now I understand what they mean although all engines have their attractions.

The only disadvantage with the 1.8T is the silly high and unfair UK's VED @ about 275 per annum last time I looked. That thanks to the EU's erroneous Emissions Guidelines which dealt Petrol engines an unfair penalty. Those VED values calculated on the wrong parameters and actual harmful stuff measured. Correction, NOT measured. Our previous Governments eager to be seen to be doing the right "green thing" back then, used those falsehoods without question. Plonkers! Glad that's been found out for what it is but, still nothing done to redress that unfairness.

How come I'm awake at this hour? Can't sleep. Something I usually do with ease. That chest infection is starting to clear and if I lay down to sleep, I soon start coughing painfully. If I sit up, no coughing or sneezing. There's a lot of this about according to a news item on the radio today. One or two news correspondents struggling to speak due to chest/throat infections. I know how they feel.

I shall try and sleep sitting upright in a chair. I may just fall asleep from exhaustion anyway!
Hi John,

Always love your posts about your projects!

Running with diesel in the sump instead of oil just sounds scaring to me.... I have heard of a few of the old guys which runs a short trip with some diesel in the oil prior to the oil changes just to clean it up a bit. Thinking about doing this prior to the oil change on my Morris Oxford soon. Thinking about running with 75/25 oil and diesel for a short trip. It think that will do good to the old B-series engine which has covered only 60000miles over its 49 years....
What do you think?
Beinet1 is offline  
post #52 of 53 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 12:53 Thread Starter
Supporter
 
MGJohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Gloucestershire - Cotswold Cockney
Car: MG Montego Turbo; 620ti x3; MG ZS; MGF and MG ZT 1.8t x2; MG ZT-T x1
Posts: 21,205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beinet1 View Post
Hi John,

Always love your posts about your projects!

Running with diesel in the sump instead of oil just sounds scaring to me.... I have heard of a few of the old guys which runs a short trip with some diesel in the oil prior to the oil changes just to clean it up a bit. Thinking about doing this prior to the oil change on my Morris Oxford soon. Thinking about running with 75/25 oil and diesel for a short trip. It think that will do good to the old B-series engine which has covered only 60000miles over its 49 years....
What do you think?
If you run your B-Series with Diesel FUEL in the sump at fast idle for a few minutes ( not driving ) to get the engine up to running temperature with no real load, I cannot see any harm done. After all, Diesel Fuel is in fact OIL.

It's thirty years plus since I drove a B-Series car when MGBs and MGB GTs were my daily driver. It's a strong engine over engineered and would be difficult to harm even if driven briefly with the Diesel Fuel as lubricant. I'd do that, but am not recommending you do so.

Done 100+ plus miles ( 160+ KM ) in current project MG ZT-T 1.8T car since repair. Used low gears and boost up to near 7,000 rpm several times once warmed up. The Turbocharger spins up making a loud Whistle. Not shriek as with Metal to Metal contact with worn Shaft bearings and Turbine Impellor Vanes touching surrounding casings. This whistle is louder than any of the Petrol Turbos I've ever owned or driven which must be more than 30 over the past thirty plus years. Maybe wrong but the performance is not as sharp as it was a few days ago when "matching strides" with a sleek Mercedes.... and forging ahead... Whistle was not there then and I do not think my hearing has improved meantime .. I am a tad worried by this loud Whistle whilst boosting up on acceleration which reduces as engine approaches peak revs. Some folks may like to hear it but, never experiencing anything this loud before leaves me puzzled.

I shall continue to monitor the car with that Turbo Whistle in mind. Soon I shall drain the plain water from the cooling system ( along with the Dishwasher Tablet which I hope has done its cleaning stuff inside the engine and whole cooling system ) flush with the garden hose and refill with 50-50 "Blue" Anti-freeze mix.

Checking the coolant level cold in the Expansion Bottle before I used the car earlier today showed the level exactly as it was when I first filled the cooling system. Another positive sign good to see.

Why not OAT ? This car is the first I have repaired fitting an Elastomer Head Gasket. I have read elsewhere that some folks who may have more experience than I about these things, believe that the Manufacturer recommended OAT may not be best for the Elastomer Gaskets. They may have something there. ...

Apparently ... in a parallel universe MGJohn drives .........A.......

B>>M>>W ....

Arrrrrggghhhhh......... ......
MGJohn is offline  
post #53 of 53 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 18:31
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Near Lincoln
Car: 06 MG ZR+120
Posts: 8,273
Quote:
Originally Posted by MGJohn View Post
Why not OAT ? This car is the first I have repaired fitting an Elastomer Head Gasket. I have read elsewhere that some folks who may have more experience than I about these things, believe that the Manufacturer recommended OAT may not be best for the Elastomer Gaskets. They may have something there. ...
I don't think they do tbh.

They are basing that opinion on the problems that developed in General Motors engines in the USA some years ago where they specified a particular OAT product called Dexcool. This was implicated in the failure of seals in the coolant system, and GM ended up paying out a huge some of money to affected owners.

The reason I don't accept the theory that OAT causes any particular problem in the Rover K series is because Rover didn't use OAT for factory fill until June 2000, and had previously used a long life silicate based type of coolant (Havoline AFC), but yet K series engines only filled with this earlier non-OAT coolant still suffered HGF at a similar rate to those built from June 2000 onwards and filled with OAT coolant (Havoline XLC). This suggests other factors are damaging the elastomer beading, rather than the type of coolant - in particular localised overheating due to the lack of decent coolant flow in certain parts of the engine.

...................................

Not entirely sure that I would want to run the engine with only diesel fuel in the sump, but it clearly shifts the muck, and as you say, a short time is unlikely to cause any significant issues
Man in the Car is offline  
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the MG-Rover.org Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
anyone got a cure for this? bonnie123 MGF and MGTF (Sponsored by MGFnTFBITZ) 15 18-06-2013 09:57
zs manifold cure british classic MG ZS / Rover 45 & 400 7 15-12-2012 22:35
A cure at last. renagade MG ZT / Rover 75 (Sponsored by Rimmer Bros) 2 22-04-2012 19:29
Someone please come up with a cure.... VOLVO-MASTER MGF and MGTF (Sponsored by MGFnTFBITZ) 27 05-10-2007 12:02
HGF cure for 24.95??????? Broon MGF and MGTF (Sponsored by MGFnTFBITZ) 19 23-07-2007 16:06

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome