What is the MGR websites views on me giving away remaps? - MG-Rover.org Forums
 21Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 83 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 10:36 Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: East Yorkshire
Car: ZT-T remapped to 160 using map from my old car ;)
Posts: 666
Question What is the MGR websites views on me giving away remaps?

In the absence of any TOAF mapping being available and the fact that things have gone very quiet over there and even questions on their Facebook page now go unanswered.I'm prepared to put some remaps up for CDT's in both manual and automatic on servers offsite.
I don't have any examples of ones for cars with traction control but anyone wanting one could send me their original map and I'll tune it and put that up also.
The maps I have are around 150hp for this and its a professional tune that is in many cars already. BUT I have changed the maps by adding "1" to all the tuned figures making the maps "MY WORK"
For those going to winge about copyright.

You need a 10 flashing cable and I will give instructions on how to insert your VIN number into the map as it will otherwise just come with zero's inserted.Initially there will be two maps,one for a manual,and one for an automatic.
Its as easy as using TOAF with the same dangers.
At your own risk of course.
Thoughts?
Shawn is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 83 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 14:42
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under a car near scunthorpe
Car: Maestros, 200, 600, ZTT
Posts: 25,327
Send a message via MSN to E_T_V
You need to think carefully about this (I'm not saying don't do it), but if you provide the files you are responsible (within certain limitations) for their effects they have on other peoples cars.

If you brick someones ECU etc then legally they would have a good case to sue you for the cost of putting it right. You can put whatever disclaimers you like it doesn't change the liability you have for providing products that are fit for purpose under UK/EU law.

Just beware thats all.

Also adding 1 to each number isn't going to wash if someone did challenge you for copyright (not that I think they would). So long as the content is substantially the same then copyright is still infringed.
E_T_V is offline  
post #3 of 83 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 15:05
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Car: 2004 Facelift 75 Connoisseur 1.8 turbo with DD Pack. And remember, the troof is out there.
Posts: 10,099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
The maps I have are around 150hp for this and its a professional tune that is in many cars already. BUT I have changed the maps by adding "1" to all the tuned figures making the maps "MY WORK"
Best check the rules before deciding. There's lots of info available on the web. For example, read section 6 here: https://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/c...opyright_myths

You don't have to receive any money to get into trouble.

TC
E_T_V likes this.
T-Cut is offline  
 
post #4 of 83 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 15:21
Diesel Tuning Dude
 
Dakta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wakefield
Car: 75 Tourer Conn SE & 45 TDi VNT
Posts: 17,815
Garages
Send a message via MSN to Dakta
It's also worth mentioning that the software (whether modified or not) is intellectual property of Bosch and it's subsidiraries, which also includes licensed code from third party developers (like the realtime operating system core)

A lot of tuning websites ban files from certain sources for a reason.

Also there's the ethical issue, and the fact that whilst you might have modified the file in some areas, aspects will likely be the same (even if just offset) so you're basically still redistributing someone elses thought and decisionmaking in the tuning process.

One could argue that tuning a stock file falls foul of this, though files are generally done on an individual basis (so a file running for and on an ecu licensed to a customer is modified to behave in an improved way for that same licensed customer). Whether that constitutes any argument with weight is up to each individual, but it isn't striding across the line like opening licensed work up for public consumption.

I defend people's freedoms to play with their own vehicles (many on here will testament the fact) but I personally draw the line firmly where you're not working in the realms of your own knowledge. If you've paid for third party work and want to make this work available to others then there really is no question there.

I wouldn't be too thrilled to find my work FOC on a forum, and I don't think it unreasonable to extrapolate the same sentiments to all tuners really.



Dieselpowered - file revisions ahead of the competition

Last edited by Dakta; 06-02-2017 at 15:34.
Dakta is offline  
post #5 of 83 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 15:47
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Car: CityRover
Posts: 141
You can't get away with stealing someone's intellectual property by just adding random digits here and there.
Perry Stalsis is offline  
post #6 of 83 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 20:13
Administrator
 
Chris T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Leicestershire
Car: MG TF 135 Platinum Silver, Skoda Roomster
Posts: 32,596
Garages
Whilst no one can stop you doing this it would be no if overtly done via this site, we have to consider not just copyright but also there are paid up remap traders on this site who wouldn't take kindly to someone offering a service for free. There could also be liability issues for the site if anything goes wrong.
Chris T is offline  
post #7 of 83 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 21:48
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Tiptree
Car: F. Fiesta 1.6 ECOnetic
Posts: 2,338
Shawn, it's a very generous and (I believe) innocent gesture from yourself but I would keep it for your own personal use. Sad world when something like this is subjected to all kinds of legal questions. My hat is off to you anyway.
viking75 and Pilzy like this.
david.anthony is offline  
post #8 of 83 (permalink) Old 07-02-2017, 09:12 Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: East Yorkshire
Car: ZT-T remapped to 160 using map from my old car ;)
Posts: 666
OK ,taken on-board.
Here's what I can give that I haven't seen anywhere.
HOW TO CHANGE YOUR ECU's VIN NUMBER.
Its only the number that comes up when the ECU is interrogated with diagnostic software.
Its of use if your ECU took a bath and a secondhand one was then fitted from a breaker.
Or if you have a friend with a tuned car and you want to use his map,but want to change the VIN to match yours.

Read the ECU with a flashing tool.
Drop said file into a HEX editor program(freely available online).
Search/find this "SARR",this is how the VIN numbers start.
Also search "53 41 52 52" (Hexadecimal SARR)
and this just for good luck"73 61 72 72" (hexidecimal sarr)
When you find it you will be able to figure out the digits after it are part of the VIN number.
You can translate the HEX stuff and re-write it with an online "Text to HEX" converter.
After changing the VIN number just save the modified HEX file with the editor software and then you can flash it back in.
Easypeasylemonsqueezy.
Pilzy likes this.
Shawn is offline  
post #9 of 83 (permalink) Old 07-02-2017, 10:11
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Hertfordshire, outskirts of North London
Car: MG ZT
Posts: 19
Thank you for the goodwill gesture to the community

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
viking75 likes this.
brianw119 is offline  
post #10 of 83 (permalink) Old 07-02-2017, 10:18
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: rotherham
Car: mgzt190+,mgztcdti+mgzr105,kawasaki zx6r
Posts: 3,191
would make no odds to me if the vin number was different.. but your problem will come when someone puts the wrong ecu map on the wrong ecu.. as there are 2 different ecus for the cdti.. both are mapped different and map make up are totally different. so one map for 1 ecu part number would leave the car a non starter and it wont even fire the fuel pumps up.. and vice versa.....

I do understand where you are coming from though.. people running a 400 zt/75 not wanting to pay out 150 for a good map.. free options are always good,, but people need to do the research first, I did before i loaded my first map and was prepared to take responsibility myself if it didnt start..and i had backups and local T4 operators..

Also i have had a few "pro" maps done from some well known mappers and knowing what i do now..The only person i would recommend for a Payed Pro map is Kris//Dakta.. Yes i first looked for Free maps and i would have tried them. But my first payed map was 50 who did things like increase duration at idle for eg.. second well known mapper adjusted the variable vane boost control map?. and we dont have a vvt fitted.. .. So even the "Pros" can get it wrong..
viking75 likes this.
keith8000_0 is offline  
post #11 of 83 (permalink) Old 08-02-2017, 15:39
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Norfolk
Car: Rover 75
Posts: 1,665
Ecu hexadecimally text to remap wassacallit thingamyjingamy binary??? Whooooosh! It's all way over my head! I remember plugs, points and carburettor jets ......................... and Yes, I can still fettle 'em with a piece of plastic tube stuck in my ear to the inlets on the carbies! Turn in to weaken and out to enrich and don't forget to allow for living at the seaside or up in the hills!
COLVERT, viking75 and Pilzy like this.
Mike T is offline  
post #12 of 83 (permalink) Old 08-02-2017, 20:07
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Loire Valley
Car: R 75 Diesel. Plus Honda CB 1,000 R. motorbike. 130 bhp engine
Posts: 5,738
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
OK ,taken on-board.
Here's what I can give that I haven't seen anywhere.
HOW TO CHANGE YOUR ECU's VIN NUMBER.
Its only the number that comes up when the ECU is interrogated with diagnostic software.
Its of use if your ECU took a bath and a secondhand one was then fitted from a breaker.
Or if you have a friend with a tuned car and you want to use his map,but want to change the VIN to match yours.

Read the ECU with a flashing tool.
Drop said file into a HEX editor program(freely available online).
Search/find this "SARR",this is how the VIN numbers start.
Also search "53 41 52 52" (Hexadecimal SARR)
and this just for good luck"73 61 72 72" (hexidecimal sarr)
When you find it you will be able to figure out the digits after it are part of the VIN number.
You can translate the HEX stuff and re-write it with an online "Text to HEX" converter.
After changing the VIN number just save the modified HEX file with the editor software and then you can flash it back in.
Easypeasylemonsqueezy.
Shawn.


Did you know about the two different diesel ECU's ???


Would you be able to work your system on both of them ??


Be handy to know,--
COLVERT is offline  
post #13 of 83 (permalink) Old 08-02-2017, 21:21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: ROCK FERRY, WIRRAL
Car: 25X, 25 1.6, 25 2.0D Rep:■■■■■■■■■■
Posts: 35,313
This sound a bit like the picture below and it is probably left alone.



ROVER-25X is offline  
post #14 of 83 (permalink) Old 09-02-2017, 00:35 Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: East Yorkshire
Car: ZT-T remapped to 160 using map from my old car ;)
Posts: 666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike T View Post
Ecu hexadecimally text to remap wassacallit thingamyjingamy binary??? Whooooosh! It's all way over my head! I remember plugs, points and carburettor jets ......................... and Yes, I can still fettle 'em with a piece of plastic tube stuck in my ear to the inlets on the carbies! Turn in to weaken and out to enrich and don't forget to allow for living at the seaside or up in the hills!
I too am from an era of rubbing my rotor arm on the tyre wall to clean it

Quote:
Originally Posted by COLVERT View Post
Shawn.


Did you know about the two different diesel ECU's ???


Would you be able to work your system on both of them ??


Be handy to know,--
I had it pointed out to me once that there are three different models of ECM used on the Rover diesels. The later one is more OBD compatible. Yes I think I could work around that.
Shawn is offline  
post #15 of 83 (permalink) Old 10-02-2017, 07:30
Supporter
 
lolsteve98's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Manchester
Car: ZR VVC
Posts: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by keith8000_0 View Post
.....I do understand where you are coming from though.. people running a 400 zt/75 not wanting to pay out 150 for a good map..

.....So even the "Pros" can get it wrong.....
150 is frankly pennies for a good map. Look at other marques and see how much they're paying out. The BMW boys can pay twice that easily for a quality product.

Many of the pros on the market run on the principle 'jack of all trades, master of none'. There are exceptions don't get me wrong as have met some blindingly intelligent people, but have also seen some truly tragic work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
Yes I think I could work around that.
Yet you won't work at finding out how to go MAFless by yourself?

SAWS Tuning - MGR Remaps
Facebook- https://www.facebook.com/SAWStuning/
Website - https://www.sawstuning.co.uk/
lolsteve98 is offline  
post #16 of 83 (permalink) Old 10-02-2017, 08:11 Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: East Yorkshire
Car: ZT-T remapped to 160 using map from my old car ;)
Posts: 666
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolsteve98 View Post
150 is frankly pennies for a good map. Look at other marques and see how much they're paying out. The BMW boys can pay twice that easily for a quality product.

Many of the pros on the market run on the principle 'jack of all trades, master of none'. There are exceptions don't get me wrong as have met some blindingly intelligent people, but have also seen some truly tragic work.



Yet you won't work at finding out how to go MAFless by yourself?
If I knew the MAFless code I'd be in the same position I am now!
I wouldn't be allowed to share it because someone who's registered as a trader is already selling it.
When forums are run for traders its the average user that looses out.
As to people not wanting to spend 150 on a remap for a 400 car I "suspect" you know more about that than me as I can't see that any of yours on eBay for that price will have sold.
Shouldn't you be BLUE as well with your trade advertisement in your signature?
Mmmeeeooooowwwwwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shawn is offline  
post #17 of 83 (permalink) Old 10-02-2017, 19:42
Diesel Tuning Dude
 
Dakta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wakefield
Car: 75 Tourer Conn SE & 45 TDi VNT
Posts: 17,815
Garages
Send a message via MSN to Dakta
Quote:
When forums are run for traders its the average user that looses out.
If I recall a bit of a summary the last few years on here correctly, there was very little tuning, especially not custom features (like mafless) at all and if you really wanted a remap you had to take your chances with any random trader out of the yellow pages and accept whatever they could come up with for a few extra ponies, and it'd probably cost 250+ to boot.

Now we have, and this applies to hundreds of forums - enthusiasts of particular cars scrabbling to learn specifics of tuning particular cars, generating specialist knowledge and even working over each shoulders to develop new approaches and constantly working for increasingly low prices in order to remain competitive.

I am failing to see the average users loss.



Dieselpowered - file revisions ahead of the competition
Dakta is offline  
post #18 of 83 (permalink) Old 10-02-2017, 20:21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Near Lincoln
Car: 06 MG ZR+120
Posts: 8,300
Nowadays there seems to be an attitude of always wanting something for nothing.

Personally, I don't see any issue with paying properly for somebody elses time and effort - most of us don't have the knowledge (or indeed the equipment) to re write the ecu programming. Neither do I have an issue with paying for half an hours labour for someone with the correct equipment to change the programming of an SCU or program a fob for me. I don't expect anything for free (and anything which would give me the ability to do such things myself would be used for my own interest and the 'fun' in doing something for myself; not for reasons of cheapness or to allow me to take business away from others). Just because our cars are old and worth very little, it doesn't follow that parts and programming services have to proportionally cheap.

If you write a new map entirely on your own, it is up to you what you do with it and whether or not you make it available free, but to lightly modify someone elses work or disguise it so you can pass it on seems rather underhand to me.
Perry Stalsis likes this.
Man in the Car is offline  
post #19 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-02-2017, 08:21 Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: East Yorkshire
Car: ZT-T remapped to 160 using map from my old car ;)
Posts: 666
Remember when a CD album was 13 but when we all started to burn our own we'd buy a stack of 100 and the were 8p each.
Everyone was thinking I can't believe we used to pay that much for them.
Remaps are the same,its changing some numbers and putting the file back. Its not magic,and with cars this old I'm sure the optimum map has already been written and I think it should be freely available.
Really all the copyright stuff is bull****. If anyone had a copyright issue it would be the cars manufacturer as very little as a percentage is changed.
Here's something else I could give away to everyone with a 160 map. Your current top speed is limited to 120mph,not by physics but by that figure being input into the ECM. I could tell you what three figures to change to make your top speed 134mph or there abouts.
But I'm realising I'm flogging a dead horse.
I'm going to buy a Mercedes.
See ya!
Shawn is offline  
post #20 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-02-2017, 09:35
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Car: CityRover
Posts: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
Remember when a CD album was 13 but when we all started to burn our own we'd buy a stack of 100 and the were 8p each.
Everyone was thinking I can't believe we used to pay that much for them.
Remaps are the same,its changing some numbers and putting the file back. Its not magic,and with cars this old I'm sure the optimum map has already been written and I think it should be freely available.
Really all the copyright stuff is bull****. If anyone had a copyright issue it would be the cars manufacturer as very little as a percentage is changed.
Here's something else I could give away to everyone with a 160 map. Your current top speed is limited to 120mph,not by physics but by that figure being input into the ECM. I could tell you what three figures to change to make your top speed 134mph or there abouts.
But I'm realising I'm flogging a dead horse.
I'm going to buy a Mercedes.
See ya!
Let me understand your point of view here Shawn.

I can invest my time, money, energy, resources and knowledge and very probably risk my home and the security of my family's future, into creating a product.

I can pay for research, development and customer support whilst creating skilled jobs but you feel you have the right to call it bull**** and take it for free?

Paint it whatever colour you like Shawn, what you've just described is theft.
LeRich likes this.
Perry Stalsis is offline  
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the MG-Rover.org Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Reidy Remaps Custom remaps for the V8 na and supercharger conversions pocketbikeuk MG ZT V8 and Rover 75 V8 11 31-08-2010 11:10
Views Welcome mushymarlin MG ZR / Rover 25, 200 & Streetwise 6 17-11-2009 21:56
Interesting views on MGR from dealers Lord Minty MG / Rover Related Chat - up to 2005 23 12-09-2007 20:45
MGR Views from Saabscene forum andy MG / Rover Related Chat - up to 2005 12 16-07-2004 11:29
Other Views of the CR cheersthanksbye MG / Rover Related Chat - up to 2005 14 10-01-2004 12:39

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome