Induction kit on a 1.6 MY2000 F ??? - MG-Rover.org Forums
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post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 21:15 Thread Starter
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Induction kit on a 1.6 MY2000 F ???

I've been toying with the above 'upgrade' and have been considering a Pipercross Viper (closed) or K&N 57i (open) induction kit for my little baby, however, when I check on the likes of ECP the results come back as 'not an option' for my car.

If I change the engine size to 1.8, it is suddenly okay and the kits are viable.

Question being, is there any reason why I should not be able to add one of the above options? - not being hugely mechanically savvy, I thought I'd ask those in the know prior to deciding. I don't know if there is a specific reason why one cannot add an induction kit to the 1.6 non-vvc engine, but I'd be happy to hear if there is a specific reason why it appears to NOT be an option when I put my car reg in.

Of course, I think I could go the alternate route of simply adding a performance air filter panel to what I believe is a TF style airbox that was factory fitted to my 31 March 2001 F. I could then modify the box (remove the excess intake piping from inside the box) and reroute the intakes to the passenger side engine vent (as I have seen/read here) for better cold air intake.

Oh, and just to add, another 'upgrade' planned in conjunction with this is a 52mm throttle body - I'm assuming that the TB is not a limiting factor as the TF's can also have the same aluminium 48mm TB that I have fitted to my car already.

I should maybe also add that I know that I'm not going to get much performance increase, but that's not the main reason for thinking about it. The induction kit is more to do with the sound (already have a TT Mk7 silencer which I love) and I'd like to get things more sportier. The TB upgrade (I believe) doesn't give masses of performance increase, more so better throttle response and a more 'eager' reply to acceleration - possibly better MPG.

Anyway, input as always would be gratefully appreciated.

Thanks,
Ste.

Last edited by steviejones133; 03-01-2017 at 21:21.
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post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 21:50
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I have a 1.6 TF. I had a one air intake hose, air filter box.
The 1.8's have two air hoses.
So thinking about your ideas. From what I have read over the years there is not a lot better than the existing tf air box. I just upgraded mine to a two hose one for about £15. I re routed one of the hoses to the left side air vent and left it at that.
Firstly my ecu did not like that little change. Maybe it was coincidence but my tf started running rich. A year on and everything has settled down again. Between £35 and £50 could get you an ebay panel filter, which I have considered adding.

Regarding the ecp website and it not displaying the details for a 1.6. The older airbox was thinner. Even when I put my 2004 tf reg in it gives the incorrect details for things like air filters or batteries. I guess it is defaulting to a much earlier mgf spec.

If you are going to increase the size of your throttle body let me know how you get on. Do a tps reset and consider getting the car on to test book.

Regarding your comment about induction sound increase. There is a thick layer of insulation on the parcel shelf/ engine cover. When I remove this and run the car the increase in sound is noticeable. If you put in a fancy filter it may get masked by the life raft that is the parcel shelf wadding.

Good luck.
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Last edited by batoutofhull; 03-01-2017 at 22:09.
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post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 23:19 Thread Starter
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Thanks for that mate. I'll have to double check what kind of airbox I have. I know that there is a hose that leads to an intake just above the catalytic converter, not sure if there is a second hose from the rear of the box but I'll check tomorrow.

Regarding the TB upgrade, I had read to simply reuse the existing TPS and that would avoid having to have the ECU altered on a testbook - could be wrong but I've read that on several other threads by searching. I will certainly let you know how it goes if and when I do it.

Interesting to hear that rerouting your single intake led to some odd behaviour. That kinda puts me off a little bit, but fortune favours the brave - or so they say!

As for the sound factor, I'd prefer to leave the parcel shelf in situ, but that is a novel idea on how to improve the 'roar' factor.

As for the induction kits, I wouldn't have thought it would matter what airbox was fitted as it's getting removed, right?

Anyway, thanks very much and I'll welcome any other input from other members about induction kits.
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post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 23:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steviejones133 View Post
Regarding the TB upgrade, I had read to simply reuse the existing TPS and that would avoid having to have the ECU altered on a testbook - could be wrong but I've read that on several other threads by searching. I will certainly let you know how it goes if and when I do it.

Interesting to hear that rerouting your single intake led to some odd behaviour. That kinda puts me off a little bit, but fortune favours the brave - or so they say!
I have heard about leaving the old tps in place. I'd forgotten about it though. Doh!

I did not re route the single hose from the 1.6 tf airbox.
I replaced the 1.6 tf airbox with a double hose one from a 1.8tf.
The 1.6 tf airbox has a blank at the front(side nearest the passenger compartment) It does not knock out though. It could be drilled out with an electricians hole saw and a hose fitted.

When it comes to my MGtf I am the biggest worry wart there is. I do not want to cause any issues. So letting a little more air in through the 48mm Throttle was not a great concern. I changed the 2nd post cat Lambda oxygen sensor, not long after the modification to the airhose. (The sensor was in tight) This could be a possible cause of the fueling fault. It did not have a very good seal as the thread had been damaged on the cat where the sensor attaches. Maybe the ecu compensated or a layer of rust around the sensor filled in any gaps to correct my over fuelling.

If you try a second hose and have issues. Change it back. Hey if I can do it it has to be easy!
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post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-01-2017, 20:11
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I regularly do a TPS reset as it is so easy to do, much less effort than retaining the old TPS.
TBH I would do the TPS reset even if I retained the old TPS anyway.

When swapping the TPS it'll be worth fitting the metal inlet as well.
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post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-01-2017, 20:56 Thread Starter
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Well, I had a look Today, but without removing my hard top and all the associated guff to get to the engine, it was pretty hard to tell what box I have. Couldn't get a hand to the rear of the box nearest the cabin to see if there was a second intake. Couldn't see anything from crawling under as much as I could....so....is there any markings to denote type of box fitted OR a measurement guide of width/depth of the external dimensions of the box????

I have looked up buying a 160 box and how to fit it just in case. One thing I did read Today was about the resonator box and how it can be in the way of routing two intakes to the NS vent - mainly that the resonator box is in the way and is a bit of a pig to remove......read about people smashing them out in frustration of trying to remove them. I'm not sure if that is 100% necessary to remove or even if I have one fitted.

Oh, and I had read that if one uses a new TPS, it needs to go to a testbook - I'm aware of the TPS reset procedure and how easy it is, however if it sorted a new TPS, why have people commented that it needs to visit a testbook?
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post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-01-2017, 22:45
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mgf airbox; it has a rounded top and 7 longitudinal lines running along the lid. This is the smaller type of airbox and has a resinator underneath.

mgtf airbox; it has a more angular airbox top with 5 longitudinal lines running along it. No resonator. If this is the one you havelook inside it to see what connections you have. With the engine panel removed you can see if there is a front hose anyway.

Re:After a throttle body replacement.
I quote Roger Parker - mgf and tf restoration manual page 252 'A useful pointer regarding fitting a throttle body is that there is often a noticable improvment in engine smoothness from having the throttle stop balanced using dealer t4 or gds diagnostic equipment.'
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post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-01-2017, 23:04 Thread Starter
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Well, I know that I have a TF box now - I know mine has 5 lines along it as I have been comparing it to images on the internet. I will have a look-see what connections I have but I have a sneaky feeling it'll be a one-hose job.

Interesting to hear about the resonator box - did they become obsolete on later F's and TF's and if so, I wonder why?

As for the TPS and a T4, I do have a local garage that has one so that won't prove to be a big issue.....
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post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-01-2017, 12:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steviejones133 View Post
Well, I know that I have a TF box now - I know mine has 5 lines along it as I have been comparing it to images on the internet. I will have a look-see what connections I have but I have a sneaky feeling it'll be a one-hose job.

Interesting to hear about the resonator box - did they become obsolete on later F's and TF's and if so, I wonder why?

As for the TPS and a T4, I do have a local garage that has one so that won't prove to be a big issue.....
No TF has a resinator. The tf airbox is too big to have a resinator box.

Before you fork out on a 1.8 tf airbox. The front of your 1.6 airbox will probably not have a hole but you can drill one. You just then need pipe/hose to the air vent. You could even use the back hose from another airbox on the front.


This is what the 1.8 looks like with the engine panel off.
You can just see the front hose. This loops around and goes underneath the airbox. It sounded quieter when I had it like this. Afterwards I rearranged it to go near the left side vent. A little more noticable but not much from inside. Outside I have read somewhere there is a slight increase in volume.

The tf airbox casting is the same for the 1.6 and the 1.8. except the 1.8 has a hole for the front pipe. All the support and ribbing in the casting are there.

The air box with 2 hoses.

An adaption of the tf airbox.

Alternative filter options

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post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-01-2017, 18:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batoutofhull View Post
Re:After a throttle body replacement.
I quote Roger Parker - mgf and tf restoration manual page 252 'A useful pointer regarding fitting a throttle body is that there is often a noticable improvment in engine smoothness from having the throttle stop balanced using dealer t4 or gds diagnostic equipment.'
I remember reading somewhere in one of the official MG Rover workshop manuals about doing a TPS reset, unfortunately I don't remember where it was or in which one, nor do I remember if it was also for new ones, but there was defiantly no mention of using T4.
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post #11 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-01-2017, 18:53
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.......One thing I did read Today was about the resonator box and how it can be in the way of routing two intakes to the NS vent - mainly that the resonator box is in the way and is a bit of a pig to remove......read about people smashing them out in frustration of trying to remove them. I'm not sure if that is 100% necessary to remove or even if I have one fitted.....
The resonator box was fitted to the subframe before the engine was so the only way to remove it complete is to remove the subframe and then the engine from the subframe.

It also forms a splash guard in the N/S wheel arch so I cut it up in situ leaving the outer edge in place.
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post #12 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-01-2017, 21:26 Thread Starter
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That's great info chaps - thanks very much!

So, it appears there will be no resonator box for me - phew!. Cracking idea regarding modding the existing 1.6 box, I have no doubt I can actually do that so I will be on the lookout at my local scrapyard for a rear hose to use on the front of the modded box.

I had wondered about size of the filter inside the box, however if all 1.8 TF boxes are the same in dimension, that shouldn't be an issue, right? - I had thought that the Trophy box might be larger but if what I understand is correct, the only difference between a 1.8 'normal' box and the Trophy box is the second inlet at the front. If that is the case, I'll certainly be looking at the mod of my 1.6 box first.

With regards to rerouting the back intake (the one that currently takes air in from just above the catalytic converter) does one need a longer hose to get to the NS air intake vent? - how does it get rerouted?

Assuming all goes well with a modded box, I presume that going that route is probably more economical that going down the route of a proper induction kit and from what others have said about the performance of the Trophy box, it seems silly to go the route of an induction kit if I can muster a 'Trophy box' of my own conjuring.

Regarding the TPS and resetting, even if I try a TB with a new sensor along with a reset and it somehow does not work as intended, I guess I could always put the old/original TPS back on and reapeat.

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post #13 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-01-2017, 22:32 Thread Starter
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Oh, one other thing.......

I'd also read about a further 'mod' to the airbox. I'm sure I saw pics on a thread here but I can't find it right now - if I do, I'll post a link to it, however.......

The additional 'mod' I read of was to do away with the large section of black tubing 'inside' the airbox that can be seen in the second pic posted above. I recall seeing the difference on the actual filter - where someone had posted pictures of their old filter which had sat on top of the tubing and it was completely clean, suggesting little to no airflow through the actual filter above the pipe because the tubing was obviously obstructing natural flow.

Removal of that tube inside the box would make sense to me to allow all of the filter to be used.........what do you guys think?

Actually, thinking about it, my 1.6 box probably doesn't even have that pipe as the box was only designed with one intake......d'oh!

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post #14 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 00:06
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1 - My 1.6 airbox did have the inner black plastic tube.
2 - When I came to change the air-filter it was also cleaner under the tube. (a good point you made re cutting the tube down)
3 - The rear hose I did not move. It lays across the back of the engine bay. The hose it's self is quite stiff and is a little shorter than the second front hose.
4 - Any ducting would do for the front air hose. Maybe have a look at other car makes. (or bob into Demon Tweaks in Wrexham)
5 - The front hose has a rubber grommet that holds it on to the airbox hole. The rear hose does not - it has a plastic bend. Maybe this could be used for the front with adaption. Just remember the front and rear hoses do not have the same attachments but do just come off simply.
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post #15 of 42 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 22:28 Thread Starter
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Is there any particular diameter for hosing that I should be looking at? - I'd ideally like to reroute both intakes - once modded the box - to the NS air vent. I will have a look at DT as they are just a mile or so away from me - good thinking that man!

Also, any advice - from anyone- on how best to reroute the rear hose to the passenger side vent would be greatly appreciated.

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post #16 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-01-2017, 02:58
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You know, I was wondering if you have aircon,, ducting your heater fan to you air inlet manifold and forcing cool dry air conditioned atmosphere into your engine would do anything to improve the breathing and power.
Just a mad idea but as far as I can see, that's what you need to improve the burn, cool air at an improved flow. Aircon turbo?
Would it work, or am I talking ******?


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post #17 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-01-2017, 10:36
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You know, I was wondering if you have aircon,, ducting your heater fan to you air inlet manifold and forcing cool dry air conditioned atmosphere into your engine would do anything to improve the breathing and power.
Just a mad idea but as far as I can see, that's what you need to improve the burn, cool air at an improved flow. Aircon turbo?
Would it work, or am I talking ******?


Sundance
A turbo can spin at between 80,000 and 250,000 rpm. Exhaust - pushes the turbine around. The turbine pushes a fan at the same rpm. I don't think aircon is going to push air in at that rate even though it is cooler. I guess it will become an obstacle to the car breathing.
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post #18 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-01-2017, 11:37
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cool air is good, dry air isn't.

Have you ever noticed that the engine runs smoother when it's misty.

It has been proven that a slight mist in the inducted air helps with combustion, you can even get kits to spray water in the inlet.
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post #19 of 42 (permalink) Old 07-01-2017, 20:53 Thread Starter
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Well, I don't have AC anyway, but a good thought! - if the weather is nice enough on Monday, I think a trudge around my local srappy is in order to see if I can source another rear hose - apparently, Plezier mentioned that it is a good length for rerouting if straightened out as he mentioned over on the T-Bar forums below. I'm not sure if I can run two 'rear' hoses to the NS intake, I have a feeling that trying to reroute an original rear hose to the inlet might not be long enough as after re-reading, it seems he blocked up the original entrance to the box from the rear and simply used the rear hose on the front entrance and rerouted it to the side vent.

http://www.the-t-bar.com/9-mgf-tf-pi...air-box#157924

Quote:
The original intake hose from the rear when straightened is just the right length to locate in the N/S intake with no resonator box in the way.
I guess we shall see, if I can grab hold of one.........
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post #20 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-01-2017, 00:23
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Well, I don't have AC anyway, but a good thought! - if the weather is nice enough on Monday, I think a trudge around my local srappy is in order to see if I can source another rear hose - apparently, Plezier mentioned that it is a good length for rerouting if straightened out as he mentioned over on the T-Bar forums below. I'm not sure if I can run two 'rear' hoses to the NS intake, I have a feeling that trying to reroute an original rear hose to the inlet might not be long enough as after re-reading, it seems he blocked up the original entrance to the box from the rear and simply used the rear hose on the front entrance and rerouted it to the side vent.


I guess we shall see, if I can grab hold of one.........
Ok. that is using the rear u bend at the front, with sealant.



In this pic you can see both hoses. The one on the right is the rear hose with the plastic tube. I guess that is a cut and glue jobby.
The other hose is the front hose with a rubber grommet. Just a push fit. See how you go. any 135 tf will have this.
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