Induction kit on a 1.6 MY2000 F ??? - Page 2 - MG-Rover.org Forums
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post #21 of 49 (permalink) Old 08-01-2017, 12:22
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It has been proven that a slight mist in the inducted air helps with combustion, you can even get kits to spray water in the inlet.
If I recall correctly, water injection was to aid with cooling the induction air.

As it vaporized on the hot parts of the inlet path it pulls energy out of the air (latent heat theory and all that from school "o" levels) cooling it (just like an aerosol jet is always cold).

Cooler air means higher density (more oxygen content), and less chance of pre-ignition.

Its not the water itself that helps, but the cooling effect.

This is the same effect as using Nitrous Oxide.

peter

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post #22 of 49 (permalink) Old 08-01-2017, 12:39
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Its not the water itself that helps, but the cooling effect.

This is the same effect as using Nitrous Oxide.

peter


NOS is a bit more than that Peter.
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post #23 of 49 (permalink) Old 08-01-2017, 20:20 Thread Starter
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Just a thought here, but I wonder if it would be okay to fabricate a longer hose from two of the front hoses. I was thinking of maybe using a small length of rigid tubing and using jubilee clips to attach each end to it, thus extending the length. I'm not sure of the internal diameter of the hose, but depending on that, I was thinking of using something like guttering downpipe (68mm diameter) to attach each 'cut' end to...........

Am I being crazy in this line of thought?

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post #24 of 49 (permalink) Old 08-01-2017, 22:30
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Originally Posted by steviejones133 View Post
Just a thought here, but I wonder if it would be okay to fabricate a longer hose from two of the front hoses. I was thinking of maybe using a small length of rigid tubing and using jubilee clips to attach each end to it, thus extending the length. I'm not sure of the internal diameter of the hose, but depending on that, I was thinking of using something like guttering downpipe (68mm diameter) to attach each 'cut' end to...........

Am I being crazy in this line of thought?
Firstly one front hose is all you need from the front. It curled underneath but redirected to the side vent it was an ideal length. No need to lengthen.
The hoses are quite rough. They are like a webbing material and mine were just easy to unscrew from the plastic connectors.

I always tend to over think projects. In the end I waited for a nice day. (not many of those forecast) Had the engine panel off, measured the vent to airbox distance. wiggled tube into place. I then changed out the old blanked airbox for the 1.8 one with the front hole. Connected up and job done.
The only issue I had with relocating the proper front tube is it tended to be a pest and pushed out the sidevent black inner. A softer plyable tube would have been easier. A smoother tube would be better still (less drag). Once you have your hose/tube you can gauge what size hole to drill.

Have you looked at what hoses other makes of cars have? You may find something that will do.
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post #25 of 49 (permalink) Old 09-01-2017, 13:29 Thread Starter
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Ok. that is using the rear u bend at the front, with sealant.



In this pic you can see both hoses. The one on the right is the rear hose with the plastic tube. I guess that is a cut and glue jobby.
The other hose is the front hose with a rubber grommet. Just a push fit. See how you go. any 135 tf will have this.
So, obviously I am missing a proper rear hose with the plastic tube. Unless I can find one, it looks like it will be a case of modding and gluing a front hose to the rear once I have drilled through my airbox blank. My understanding here is that a modded front hose will be just about the right length to reach the side intake vent.

Maybe where I am overthinking things is in regards to the length of hose needed to go from the front intake to the side vent - the original front hose just doesn't look long enough to reach to me, hence the idea of extending it somehow. I'm presuming that instead of taking air in from above the catalytic converter, it needs to be rerouted under the airbox and to the side vent, right?

I haven't considered using a hose from a different vehicle, but not a bad idea if I can find one that would suffice. Also, I will look at buying some ducting from a motor factors place as it might just be easier to do that altogether.

Like you said, weather is a permitting factor for me as I don't have a large enough covered space to fiddle. This little project might not happen for a good few weeks, but I just want to be prepared when the time comes....I'm thinking that when I actually start to do it, things will suddenly become a lot more apparent as to what needs to be done, as is often the case!
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post #26 of 49 (permalink) Old 09-01-2017, 16:29
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You are right. Once you start on this job you have nothing to worry about.


In the above picture the right hand hose(back one) with the plastic pipe is the one that is nearest the boot. The other hose to the left that is curling around is the front hose. If you look at it, it has a rubber attachment that is a push fit into the hole you drill. So no glue needed.
You would only need glue if you put another rear hose(the one with the plastic pipe) at the front. In that case you would have two hoses the same. One hose would need its plastic part cutting down so it would not hit the other inside the airbox.

After re reading your posts again I realise you want to send a hose from the rear of the airbox to the side vent, as well as the front hose to the airbox.
The current hose you have is too short to be positioned there. That is why I left my rear hose as it was(and as yours is) laid across the back of the engine bay.

Here are your options.
  1. leave the airbox as is.
  2. Change the whole airbox for a 1.8tf version with hoses.
  3. Change the airbox for a 1.8tf version and redirect the front pipe to the side vent.
  4. Change the airbox for a 1.8tf version, redirect the front pipe to the side vent and direct the rear pipe with a link and extension to the side vent.
  5. Modify your 1.6 blanked tf airbox, sawing a hole and adding a hose to the front.
  6. Modify your 1.6 blanked tf airbox, sawing a hole and adding a hose to the front and directing it to the side vent.
  7. Modify your 1.6 blanked tf airbox, sawing a hole and adding a hose to the front, directing it to the side vent then extending the rear hose and directing it to the side vent.
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post #27 of 49 (permalink) Old 09-01-2017, 17:32
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Hi!

Some months ago I've fitted a Viper Pipecross to my VVC.
It turned out to have a TF airbox (no resonator), so no hassle

Just remove the old box and fit the new one in (the pipercross is essentially a tube of 200).

To be honest, I don't know how much of a difference the mod will do, probably nothing.
I'v also redirected the intake on the side of the car but, again, don't know if any benefit.
Truth is that I had a broken cathalitic and exhaust. So, who knows, I reaped the benefits of lots of mods once fitted the Daytona kit.

As for the work itself: it's absolutely easy fit, and if you buy the thing and access the engine bay, everything will be very easy to figure out.

Best of luck!

Giulio

EDIT: Ok, reading the all thread it seems you are already working on a solution or something. So scrap what I've said.
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post #28 of 49 (permalink) Old 09-01-2017, 23:08 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by batoutofhull View Post

After re reading your posts again I realise you want to send a hose from the rear of the airbox to the side vent, as well as the front hose to the airbox

Here are your options.
  1. leave the airbox as is.
  2. Change the whole airbox for a 1.8tf version with hoses.
  3. Change the airbox for a 1.8tf version and redirect the front pipe to the side vent.
  4. Change the airbox for a 1.8tf version, redirect the front pipe to the side vent and direct the rear pipe with a link and extension to the side vent.
  5. Modify your 1.6 blanked tf airbox, sawing a hole and adding a hose to the front.
  6. Modify your 1.6 blanked tf airbox, sawing a hole and adding a hose to the front and directing it to the side vent.
  7. Modify your 1.6 blanked tf airbox, sawing a hole and adding a hose to the front, directing it to the side vent then extending the rear hose and directing it to the side vent.
Pretty much this. I have a feeling that I won't be able to get a TF box with the correct hoses, so modding is on the cards regardless. I doubt I will find the correct hose in addition to the one I currently have at the rear of the engine as my local scrappy only seems to have F's in right now and I haven't seen any for sale elsewhere, so it looks like I will have to modify the hose I have now to fit on the other side of the box.

I'm not sure what benefit is to gain from buying a 1.8 TF box over drilling a hole in mine. Probably not much.

Actually, I thought the hose on mine was the one without the extended pipe inside the box - looks like I was getting my hoses confused!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathFromAbove View Post
Hi!

Some months ago I've fitted a Viper Pipecross to my VVC.
It turned out to have a TF airbox (no resonator), so no hassle

Just remove the old box and fit the new one in (the pipercross is essentially a tube of 200).

To be honest, I don't know how much of a difference the mod will do, probably nothing.
I'v also redirected the intake on the side of the car but, again, don't know if any benefit.
Truth is that I had a broken cathalitic and exhaust. So, who knows, I reaped the benefits of lots of mods once fitted the Daytona kit.

As for the work itself: it's absolutely easy fit, and if you buy the thing and access the engine bay, everything will be very easy to figure out.

Best of luck!

Giulio

EDIT: Ok, reading the all thread it seems you are already working on a solution or something. So scrap what I've said.
Thanks mate, I'm sure I'll get there in the end. It might not reap huge benefits, but who knows!

Last edited by steviejones133; 09-01-2017 at 23:50.
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post #29 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-01-2017, 20:14 Thread Starter
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Well, a trip to the scrappy turned out to be unfruitful. No TF's only much older F's than mine, so nothing worth having. Had a look under a few other bonnets to check for hosing, again nothing obvious that sprang out that would be of use.

I did see some ZR's that I thought might have a 52mm TB, but alas not - all were just plainy marked with Dell'Orto TV but no 52mm in a circle so I assumed that they were all 48mm ones, especially looking at the butterfly which had the small plate screwed to it which I've seen removed for modding and the screw holes filled with solder.

Anyway, looks like I'll be having to buy some hosing from somewhere, and possibly another MG hose unless I can fabricate another joint to fit the airbox.

Don't suppose anyone has a spare hose going begging?
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post #30 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-01-2017, 20:59
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I've thrown away my whole TF airbox some weeks ago...

Could be worth check ebay for some TF airbox?
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post #31 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-01-2017, 21:23 Thread Starter
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I've thrown away my whole TF airbox some weeks ago...

Could be worth check ebay for some TF airbox?
Arghhh, just my luck - guess I'll have to put my thinking cap on or keep an eye on eBay.
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post #32 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-01-2017, 21:42 Thread Starter
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Scrub that.

Just had another look on eBay and miraculously found a TF 135 airbox with both hoses for sale for 20 including shipping. Needless to say I jumped on it quicker than Usain Bolt out of the starting blocks.........

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post #33 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-01-2017, 23:16
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Scrub that.

Just had another look on eBay and miraculously found a TF 135 airbox with both hoses for sale for 20 including shipping. Needless to say I jumped on it quicker than Usain Bolt out of the starting blocks.........

Good work.
Your box out. The 1.8 box in.
You normally need a special tool to undo the bloomin fangdangled jubilee clips on the rubber air box hose. Don't bother undoing them.

You can undo the lid part of your box and wiggle it to one side....just.
Then take the bottom part of your new box and swap that.
While you are at it bung in a new air filter.
Re attach the front hose/duct - redirect to the side vent.
I feel sure you can now muck about linking your old rear hose and new rear hose to your hearts content.
There was a reason why I left it. Oh yes it was raining. You are on your own with that bit. I can't see any benefit really to having the rear hose redirected.

There is an increase in sound with the front hose redirected. Its not much but it is there.

There was a 52mm throttle body in the for sale part of this forum by the way.

If you are still having hose issues. Flexible Air intake Ducting Transfer Car Engine Air Hose/Tube Black | eBay

A cheapo flexi pipe might help.
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post #34 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-01-2017, 23:34 Thread Starter
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Thanks for the advice and help thus far - much appreciated.

I think once I've got the engine bay open, all will become obvious, but still good to have plenty of pointers. I will probably muck about with extending the rear hose with part of my old rear hose - if possible. I just like the idea of having cold air coming in from the side vent as opposed to what I can only think of as being warm/hot air from just above the scorching hot catalytic converter. I'm sure I will get there with that one now.......

As for the filter, my plan was to bung in a performance panel filter, wether it be Pipercross or whatever - suggestions welcome for the best option. That should improve things as much as possible.

While I'm at it, I think I will chop what I consider to be 'excess pipework' from the rear hose inside the airbox - the part that leaves the filter clean where it seats on top of the plastic tubing from the rear hose inside the box itself. I can only see that pipe restricting airflow as the filter is clean above it.

Other than doing the above, as mentioned, a 52mm TB is on the cards - I did see a while ago that Craigie TF was selling some in the for sale section, but just had a look and I can't see anything - maybe eBay for that, too.

Thanks again, Bat - you're a star.
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post #35 of 49 (permalink) Old 13-01-2017, 23:21 Thread Starter
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Just a thought here, but whilst I will have the airbox and intakes removed, would it be worth doing anything to the intake tubes to aid in keeping the air coming in as cold as possible? - the idea of some kind of wrap around the OEM intake hoses came to mind but I don't know if that would be of any benefit or not. I've quickly researched a wee bit tonight and I know that I don't want to be using the kind of tape used on manifolds that keep heat IN, I want to keep heat OUT.

Any thoughts? - Just thinking aloud here and it might be a waste of time, but if there is something out there that I *could* use to make the air coming in stay as cool as possible, I'd consider it. Nothing too expensive though as I am already quite aware that the gains to be had would be minimal anyway, just a thought whilst I had things out and to hand........
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post #36 of 49 (permalink) Old 13-01-2017, 23:29
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Just a thought here, but whilst I will have the airbox and intakes removed, would it be worth doing anything to the intake tubes to aid in keeping the air coming in as cold as possible? - the idea of some kind of wrap around the OEM intake hoses came to mind but I don't know if that would be of any benefit or not. I've quickly researched a wee bit tonight and I know that I don't want to be using the kind of tape used on manifolds that keep heat IN, I want to keep heat OUT.

Any thoughts? - Just thinking aloud here and it might be a waste of time, but if there is something out there that I *could* use to make the air coming in stay as cool as possible, I'd consider it. Nothing too expensive though as I am already quite aware that the gains to be had would be minimal anyway, just a thought whilst I had things out and to hand........
I remember a science experiment at school. My hand was painted black and I was asked to put it near a bunsen burner. I could not. Then a silver foil was added on top of the black. I could almost put my hand in the flame.

Maybe some kind of heat reflective foil type cover.
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post #37 of 49 (permalink) Old 14-01-2017, 13:42 Thread Starter
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I remember a science experiment at school. My hand was painted black and I was asked to put it near a bunsen burner. I could not. Then a silver foil was added on top of the black. I could almost put my hand in the flame.

Maybe some kind of heat reflective foil type cover.
Yes, I was thinking along the same lines of some kind of aluminium heat reflective tape - just not sure what exactly I'd be looking for. I'll have to do a wee bit of research.

Of course, it probably won't make much difference to the temp of the incoming air, but if it did allow the air to stay cooler, anything is better than no improvement, right?

Oh, my airbox turned up Yesterday! - very pleased to see it is the original Trophy type box and not one that had been modified. It was hard to tell from the eBay pics so I just trusted to luck. Anyway, after a bit of spit and polish, she's come up like new - just hope the missus doesn't see the pics of it on the bed, or else..........


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post #38 of 49 (permalink) Old 14-01-2017, 22:56
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Looks like new

Good job. Oh and if the missus finds out about muck on the bed.
Blame the dog!
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post #39 of 49 (permalink) Old 16-01-2017, 11:42 Thread Starter
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Well, in the meantime I have acquired a 52mm throttle body off eBay for 43 delivered. Looks in good condition from what I can tell from the listing pictures:




I now need to decide on and buy a performance panel filter. Does anyone know if K&N actually make one for the TF? - I've seen conflicting reports on this subject......
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post #40 of 49 (permalink) Old 19-01-2017, 20:04 Thread Starter
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Well, the 52mm TB got collected Today from the sorting office as I missed it Yesterday. I knew I was buying used and that it looked good in the eBay listing, however, I was really surprised to see how good the condition was - practically brand new I think. I think the previous owner must have recently upgraded with a brand new one and possibly the car is no more - who knows, just that if it had been in use for a while, I'd have expected condition to be a lot worse. All in all, a good saving on new for just 43 delivered. A little clean and here she is:

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