MG TF 135 SAIC Sports Cat - Page 2 - MG-Rover.org Forums
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post #21 of 35 (permalink) Old 25-04-2017, 11:27
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Originally Posted by esotericman1967 View Post
Peter....Just look at all the mgf acceleration videos on YouTube. Particularly the turbo mgtf's they hit 70 in second gear without even red lining....So would you kindly explain that to me please?
could it be they have up geared the cars to match the extra bhp this can be done with a bigger tyre 225 instead of 215 plus the vvc is lower geared than a 18i so if one car is a vvc and the other is a std 18i the 18i will hit the max rpm later than a vvc
Having said that 2000 rpm = about 45mph in a vvc but 47 in a 18i Plus a vvc is red lined at 7250 a 1.8i is 6800

Last edited by helsbyman; 25-04-2017 at 11:35.
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post #22 of 35 (permalink) Old 28-04-2017, 08:13
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Never fitted a decat to the LE500. I am trying to keep it standardish. Did fit a Daytona back box though, but that had to be done.


The only thing a decat may effect is the post cat sensor. You may need to program it out or fit a MIL eliminator, otherwise your engine warning light may come on.
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post #23 of 35 (permalink) Old 28-04-2017, 09:22 Thread Starter
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Never fitted a decat to the LE500. I am trying to keep it standardish. Did fit a Daytona back box though, but that had to be done.


The only thing a decat may effect is the post cat sensor. You may need to program it out or fit a MIL eliminator, otherwise your engine warning light may come on.
Thanks CJJ!
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post #24 of 35 (permalink) Old 06-05-2017, 23:50 Thread Starter
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As it happens and in my quest to see why the car feels rather lethargic, I found a guy selling a slightly used Janspeed sports cat on eBay and I bought it of him. I was quite lucky because they are hard to come by and the only place that stocks them is Rimmers but they are bloody expensive there. I will probably have it fitted very soon and in a sense I am curious. Would the emissions go out of whack? Will it be very noisy? Will the car perform better? In the meantime, and this is the biggie, I took the car over to DVA Power for a K13A conversion which includes major head work plus more aggressive cams. Given the opportunity, we added forged pistons and rods. I should probably create a different thread for this but Dave Andrews is a great guy with huge attention to detail in all things car. He also did quite a bit of TLC to the car, on top of everything else, that only an enthusiast would do. The verdict? The car absolutely flies now. It goes through the rev range much faster in every gear, everything seems to have come together. It sounds better, meatier, too (probably because of the cams). As they say, you get what you pay for. Side effect, rev matching on the downshifts is now much easier and very addictive. This, in my mind, means that the cat was not to blame, in some sense the engine was not at its best before.
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post #25 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-05-2017, 05:33
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As it happens and in my quest to see why the car feels rather lethargic, I found a guy selling a slightly used Janspeed sports cat on eBay and I bought it of him. I was quite lucky because they are hard to come by and the only place that stocks them is Rimmers but they are bloody expensive there. I will probably have it fitted very soon and in a sense I am curious. Would the emissions go out of whack? Will it be very noisy? Will the car perform better? In the meantime, and this is the biggie, I took the car over to DVA Power for a K13A conversion which includes major head work plus more aggressive cams. Given the opportunity, we added forged pistons and rods. I should probably create a different thread for this but Dave Andrews is a great guy with huge attention to detail in all things car. He also did quite a bit of TLC to the car, on top of everything else, that only an enthusiast would do. The verdict? The car absolutely flies now. It goes through the rev range much faster in every gear, everything seems to have come together. It sounds better, meatier, too (probably because of the cams). As they say, you get what you pay for. Side effect, rev matching on the downshifts is now much easier and very addictive. This, in my mind, means that the cat was not to blame, in some sense the engine was not at its best before.
Have you got any before and after rolling road figures?

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post #26 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-05-2017, 09:06 Thread Starter
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Have you got any before and after rolling road figures?
I have a before, I'll go for an after on Monday.
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post #27 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-05-2017, 21:16 Thread Starter
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Here is the pre-DVA which got me a bit disappointed



and here is the post-DVA which made me much happier



What the picture doesn't say is the overall feel of the car which is now much better, in a sense it feels liberated, revs freely etc. The dyno guys mentioned that the engine is running rich in fuel and with some ECU tuning there could be more power to be liberated when the air-fuel mixture gets exactly right



To sort this I feel an Emerald ECU is required but at the moment there isn't a single penny left for car modifications so I'll wait until finances recover. If I manage to get all sorts of engine bay rattles sorted then I will be very happy.
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post #28 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-05-2017, 11:45 Thread Starter
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Regarding the engine running rich, is this something that only an aftermarket ECU like the Emerald will solve or are there other ways of going about it without breaking the bank? Looking around I read that the MEMS3 ECU can be put into a T4 self-learning mode by a dealer. Is that correct if it is possible will it do something to sort out the AF ratio? Thanks!
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post #29 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-05-2017, 12:45
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MGF ultimate found that most upgraded CATs made next to no difference to the overall performance of the car.

The only significant increase was the straight through, and that of course makes your car illegal to drive on the road in the UK.

Catalytic converters
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post #30 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-05-2017, 14:26
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Quite familiar with the K13a...

Are you sure you are running rich? Do you have a trace of your lambda figures across the rev range at full throttle?

Usualy, depending on the cams you chose with the K13a kit, some people may complain about running lean, rather than rich, "a direction" which would be far more logic. In short it is very unlikely you are running rich...

Anyway, should you run too rich then I would suspect something is wrong with sensors etc.
OR Dave has already altered for you the FPR in order to run richer (to suite wilder cams la 633), in which case it would be wise to liase with him and make sure it is not already optimal.

Should you though run lean, then measure first if that's really the case and by how much, and given it is likely if ever to be by a very small margin, there are fixes to that and no need for Emerald or ECU tuning. For a very small move (ask Dave about his bounge into the IAVC, note though it gives also more sharpness to the throttle response) to bigger moves squeezing simply the FPR or replacing it with a FPR with more than 3bar.

Last but not least, I would say in most cases you don't need to do anything as the ECU adapts quite well, but on some occasions it can be a tad borderline (still on the safe side) with wilder cams la 633 cams and a SLIGHT pressure regulations upwards could be beneficial.

As of me, I prefer the K13a kit with 633 cams on an Elise, but with 135 cams on the MG as IMHO their torque delivery suits more the heavier MG...

I hope this helps

Claude
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post #31 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-05-2017, 14:29
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Sorry on phone so just seen your graphs...

Is the last one the one you refer to when saying rich running?

If so then indeed something must have been altered : check electronics, plugs etc. and ask Dave if he hasn't already squeezed the FPR.

What cams did you go for with your K13a?

Good luck

Claude
PS : Oh, and make sure the RR you visited is reliable re A/F ratios...
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post #32 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-05-2017, 16:33 Thread Starter
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Sorry on phone so just seen your graphs...

Is the last one the one you refer to when saying rich running?

If so then indeed something must have been altered : check electronics, plugs etc. and ask Dave if he hasn't already squeezed the FPR.

What cams did you go for with your K13a?

Good luck

Claude
PS : Oh, and make sure the RR you visited is reliable re A/F ratios...
Yes, it is the last graph, purple line is the air-to-fuel ratio. I'll ask Dave about the FPR and the cams. By the way, I made a typo, the kit was the K13, not the K13A.
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post #33 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-05-2017, 18:16
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Bigger valves then, well not really required unless you plan at some stage to fit individual throttle bodies (and ECU and forged bottome end etc.)

I can't comment on the bigger valves but perhaps, in conjunction with wild cams, that is pulsing or driving the ECU mad - indeed I haven't heard of anyone fitting K13 without playing with fuel delivery one way or another...

In that case you might indeed need an Emrald or K maps...

Ask Dave, the specs you have exactly are the key, massive difference between cams etc.

Good luck

Claude
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post #34 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-05-2017, 00:21 Thread Starter
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Thank you Claude
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post #35 of 35 (permalink) Old 15-05-2017, 15:18 Thread Starter
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Janspeed sports cat fitted today. Didn't do a post rolling road so no idea about performance improvements. Exhaust note is definitely meatier but not louder and I am happy that the heavy, rusted old cat is out and a shiny stainless steel cat is in.
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