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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 18-03-2017, 17:58 Thread Starter
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TF Thermal Images

I am currently researching for a expansion tank sensor for a project I have coming up, for which I need to know the approximate temperature of the expansion bottle at max temp (for the sensor working range).
My employer has kindly allowed me to borrow our thermal imaging camera over the weekend to check this.
Here is the result for anyone interested, along with some other useless but good to look at images of the car after it has been run up to temperature. The car has been idling for 25 mins.


Here is the expansion tank, maxes out at 95 degC but cools to 85 rapidly once the bonnet is opened.


My new TT exhaust does not run as hot as you would think, maybe this warms up a bit more when the engine is revving harder


Here is a view of the front end showing the heat distribution from the radiator


And a close-up of the rad behind the grille, the coolant must really begin to cool fast as it runs from the rear of the car and underneath. Again I was expecting a little more than 53 degrees here.


Next is a view of the rear quarter of the car, I find this one really fascinating to look at!


An effective piccy of the door mirror, remember these are heated
too!


Its good to know that all of the elements are working on my rear window!


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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 18-03-2017, 19:15
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Cool Not cool, I mean good pics.
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 18-03-2017, 19:58 Thread Starter
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Just to update the temp readings on the expansion tank, just got back from a 20 mile run and using the engine at a higher speed than usual and then took another reading of the tank, checks out at about 70 degrees. Proves how effective the side scoops and radiator combo work!


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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 18-03-2017, 21:18
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My mate 'The Predator' approves of these photos.





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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 18-03-2017, 21:28
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If he's seeing what I'm seeing then I'm outer here!

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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 18-03-2017, 21:42
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"Here is the expansion tank, maxes out at 95 degC but cools to 85 rapidly once the bonnet is opened."

96 to 98 degrees C give or take a couple of degrees..? depends on the ambient temperature at that point.

and you need to affirm what the ambient temperature was...


since it is an input you dont include... specific. its important because the ambient temperature defines what? the imaging camera can see? and what the reaction of the car temperature is ...? that you use the kit for?

?

"I am currently researching for a expansion tank sensor for a project I have coming up, for which I need to know the approximate temperature of the expansion bottle at max temp (for the sensor working range)."

and that includes the ambient temperature of the road and air at that point?

or not?



doesnt that have an effect? what do you think ? sundanceuk?
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 18-03-2017, 21:51
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You could use an analogue​ meter like in a classic car, red-lining around 120 Deg C

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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 18-03-2017, 23:22 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnu View Post
You could use an analogue​ meter like in a classic car, red-lining around 120 Deg C
I have a thermocouple probe that clips on to my multimeter that is calibrated and quite accurate too, but the access to the thermal imager is a tool I can use because I can. I also had a few other jobs around the house to use it on too.
Ambient temperature by the way was 12.7 degrees at the time...I did record that which I suppose was a good average temperature of our annual climate. A good Temperature for mid March.
I am trying to get a max reading around the expansion tank, not in it, as the sensor I want to use is a contactless level sensor that I plan to use as a coolant level alarm.
About the same price as a level switch and tank replacement unit, but one that will not come in contact with the liquid. It will jump across a smallish gap and will just clip on to my existing tank. I will not even need to drain the coolant.
It has a maximum working temperature of 85 deg but the manufacturer tells me it can be exceeded.
I just wanted to get a good idea of if its possible or not.
Its another option that may be easier to fit and have more advantages, like self checking, will not clog up with oil or debris and is failsafe in operation.


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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 18-03-2017, 23:26 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Incony View Post
"Here is the expansion tank, maxes out at 95 degC but cools to 85 rapidly once the bonnet is opened."

96 to 98 degrees C give or take a couple of degrees..? depends on the ambient temperature at that point.

and you need to affirm what the ambient temperature was...


since it is an input you dont include... specific. its important because the ambient temperature defines what? the imaging camera can see? and what the reaction of the car temperature is ...? that you use the kit for?

?

"I am currently researching for a expansion tank sensor for a project I have coming up, for which I need to know the approximate temperature of the expansion bottle at max temp (for the sensor working range)."

and that includes the ambient temperature of the road and air at that point?

or not?



doesnt that have an effect? what do you think ? sundanceuk?
Of course ambient temp has an effect. I work with heating systems and water circulation daily in my job.
All I want to get to know is if the temp around my tank will kill my sensor or not.
Since it was a free sample I don't mind trying it and seeing what happens! Its borderline so only way to find out is try it.
Do you not find the pics interesting?


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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 18-03-2017, 23:35
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Nice work.

What is the spread on the sensor?
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 19-03-2017, 06:19 Thread Starter
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Nice work.

What is the spread on the sensor?
That I do not know, I suppose I could download the datasheet.
I have a spare expansion tank and have knocked up a stand for it, and was going to do some tests. See how far from the tank the sensor works. I am more than sure it reads what is directly in front of it. The sensor sits below the seam on the tank and trigger at 5mm below the low level line, this looks to me like a perfect position, more luck than judgement. I have made some clips to hold it in place, but will add some sikoflex to keep it secured.
The sensor is an ultrasonic type.
The trigger state of the sensor is normally open, so will be turned on when water is sensed. This I will invert with a relay. This will give the failsafe operation of the sensor.
If the sensor fails, the warning lamp will come on.
I am due to fit a new binnacle cover soon, so was going to install it all at the same time.

Will post up some pics of the sensor later when I have made sure it works how I intend.

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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 19-03-2017, 08:35
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If these are cheap sensors, how about sticking one 10 mm above the max line, one on the minimum level line and use the circuitry to compare the temps. Assuming the sensor next to the liquid is hotter than the one next to the steam at the top, when the min one's temp falls to around that of the sensor above the max, time for a visual check of the levels...

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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 19-03-2017, 11:36 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnu View Post
If these are cheap sensors, how about sticking one 10 mm above the max line, one on the minimum level line and use the circuitry to compare the temps. Assuming the sensor next to the liquid is hotter than the one next to the steam at the top, when the min one's temp falls to around that of the sensor above the max, time for a visual check of the levels...
The sensor is a small square block type about 40mm square. They do not monitor temperature, they are for level sensing. I am fitting it instead of using a float switch in the tank, same price as changing the tank to a new one with a float switch and considerably cheaper than buying the kit.
It sits below the seam on the tank, butting up to it nicely.


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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 19-03-2017, 11:42
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I have my own thermal FLIR system that I bought a few months ago.


I bought it to find cold spots in the house, but it allows me to do video, so I will be mapping the heat flow from warm up through the coolant pipes and system in the future.


At the moment, I am just taking random pics of the dogs.
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 19-03-2017, 12:48 Thread Starter
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I have my own thermal FLIR system that I bought a few months ago.


I bought it to find cold spots in the house, but it allows me to do video, so I will be mapping the heat flow from warm up through the coolant pipes and system in the future.


At the moment, I am just taking random pics of the dogs.
Yeah, I tested it out on the dogs too! Found it interesting on my hot tub, tells me I am gonna need a new lid for it soon. I may take a few shots of the windows and see what sort of heat loss I get around them. I am finished taking shots of the car for now.
The one I borrowed is a Flir too, an excellent bit of kit for the price.


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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 19-03-2017, 16:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundanceuk View Post
The sensor is a small square block type about 40mm square. They do not monitor temperature, they are for level sensing. I am fitting it instead of using a float switch in the tank, same price as changing the tank to a new one with a float switch and considerably cheaper than buying the kit.
It sits below the seam on the tank, butting up to it nicely.


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Oh. Why ever did I think it was heat sensors you were teating?
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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 19-03-2017, 18:25
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I discovered that the Border Collie is more thermally efficient than the Whiplington.





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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 19-03-2017, 21:52
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Sundance, do you mind if I use your thermal image of the TT?
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 19-03-2017, 22:28
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My recollection of TF coolant temperatures as seen on my Scangauge II on the car are that the temperature will rise to 104C when the radiator fan will come on and cool to about 96C when it goes off.
Does that help?

(Sold the car back in May 2016 so can't check any further)
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 19-03-2017, 23:15 Thread Starter
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Sundance, do you mind if I use your thermal image of the TT?
No not at all mate


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