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L-series with over 200bhp already created...

74K views 296 replies 41 participants last post by  Spiegelmann 
#1 ·
.. yep you read that right...

Lunar racing have clocked one up to 230bhp:
http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=380482

I guess as it is a race car it may not be the most mild mannered, but even so - i really want to know what the hell they have done to it!
 
#82 ·
When i said standard i meant hybrid standard :lol:

Either way it is certainly going to be interesting, how are you planning to deal with the inevitable torque steer with this setup then, as that is a fairly huge dollop of torque, and i am also making the assumption that it will have a lot of that big dollop available for more of the rev range than the hybrids.

I wait to read of the good results tho and keep my fingers crossed the car makes it through the 24hrs :)
 
#88 ·
I guessed as much, using a Quaife or Torsen?

Sorry being nosey i know but i am really curious as to how it all turns out :)

Anyone had a go in a sporty VAG TDi?

The power delivery is very different from a tuned L-series, it's very linear/progressive like the torque curve is flat across the powerband and a continuous wall of torque; like V8 in a way.

My same VAG mates have drove my ZS and comment that it feels faster as the torque initially comes in much stronger but fades away as the revs build, like a big surge.

I think I'd look at having the torque limited below 2500rpm to aid traction, so it's like now where it's around 240ftlb from 1800rpm. Also to take the strain off the driveshafts and gearbox. Alot of posts on tdiforum recommend nomore than 300ftlb @2000rpm to stop the transmission components suffering, and their gearbox is rated to 300ftlb in oem form! I'm sure the PG1 is rated at 180ftlb on the oem bearings!
that is one reason why i have left the the OE torque limiters in place on mine ( i have no idea if it is done of fuelling % of max or whether it is a set value) but it seems silly to munch the box by flooring it in those gears imo.....

I had hoped that the hybrid would be like how you describe, and it is is to a lesser exent, it still has more torque than standard at 4400 than we have at 2000 :)

i think the rating was 195 with the uprated box as that was the OEM 115 map's max value..... tho originally it was probably a lot less than that!
 
#84 ·
Would not a VNT though cause this to happen as it spools and is a 'little turbo' down low and then becomes bigger as the revs\boost\magic increases?

I thought as a result it would have a similar quick spike, but the curve would be flatter for longer, thus holding more torque up to the rev range allowing for higher bhp as a result.
 
#87 ·
Anyone had a go in a sporty VAG TDi?

The power delivery is very different from a tuned L-series, it's very linear/progressive like the torque curve is flat across the powerband and a continuous wall of torque; like V8 in a way.

My same VAG mates have drove my ZS and comment that it feels faster as the torque initially comes in much stronger but fades away as the revs build, like a big surge.

I think I'd look at having the torque limited below 2500rpm to aid traction, so it's like now where it's around 240ftlb from 1800rpm. Also to take the strain off the driveshafts and gearbox. Alot of posts on tdiforum recommend nomore than 300ftlb @2000rpm to stop the transmission components suffering, and their gearbox is rated to 300ftlb in oem form! I'm sure the PG1 is rated at 180ftlb on the oem bearings!
 
#90 ·
Just thought id add we are making a new inlet manifold now and intercooler piping kit so we will have a full diy install kit ready off the shelf so you can bolt on at home to save on costly garage bills. Also the price of the kits depends if you want stainless or mild steel manifolds and down pipe as the kit will be available in both.
 
#101 · (Edited)
That's one good thing about our lesser powered L-series; it has shorter gears which means more torque to the wheels than these more powerful diesels and their long gears = quicker acceleration for us per same engine output :)


I'm glad I fitted an uprated clutch, gearbox bearings, new 620Ti torsen diff and ARPs last year while the car was still in stock tune. My clutch is rated to 270ftlb but tbh that's a good dollup of torque for a street car
 
#104 ·
You've never been in a remapped 120d then, turns into a monster very quickly. Have to say for a 2.0td the BMW guys did a good job, is a great engine.
Are old l series is well behind the technology race but it can still punch it's weight when needed, any well tuned l series is a good match, with short ratios and less weight. I always surprised people in mine.
 
#115 ·
Good to hear people have good money to spend on their cars. Without wanting to douse the thread with cold water I woundn't be shelling out on a kit like this until many miles/hours had been put on the protoype engine. Even then I would be cautious.

It isn't going to be cheap either!

Making power is one thing. As long as you are after a track car that is the main thing. On a daily driver it is potentially the beginning of the problem!

What is the ceiling for an 8v di engine? It is all very well quoting what the vw boys are achieving but that is a 16v so will flow more.

I know dropping the compression will ease things but as I see it you are touching into the unknown until someone fits and literally tests to destruction.
 
#116 ·
What is the ceiling for an 8v di engine? It is all very well quoting what the vw boys are achieving but that is a 16v so will flow more.
Anything is possible, and some of the 'vag boys' do work with 8v lumps. There's still a lot of old fashioned tuning going on.

Can't quote figures but I know of a few who are seeking the 300 figure, which seems just ever so slightly out of reach thanks to the pump.

8v heads don't generally flow as well, but it doesn't put a cap on it as such, it's just a bit of a drag.
 
#130 ·
I have seen an ERF Tractor unit that was diesel and completely modified to run LPG with 2 spark plugs per cylinder etc.

The only reason i came across this is because i was doing my time at a John Deere dealer and he used to come in to use the PTO dyno...He did actually use it for local runs pulling powder tankers

Clever bloke and the owner of the business

Heads can be modified and i know it may not be cost effective but depends how far you want to go
 
#119 ·
Ok, that is good to know. Sadly all my modification/tweaking is still maestro focused. Latest idea is to get adjustable top mounts setup from the 200 rover. I have so much power being spun at the wheels and not onto the road! Hopefully once I get the L series head back on and new shell ready and on the road I can get back in the flow of derv power!
 
#120 ·
Soon it'l be time to move onto a new challenge as I need the 400 as a daily driver (no waiii it'l break down t'much! ;)) but I've been thinking about 'what next'.

It's going to be VNT, and it'l be either a peugeot tud5 I think or a prima if I can get my hands on one. Pumps on the right side (er, left) for some decent fun. :)

Mega projects, especially the prima which as we know has it's issues, but no point doing the possible. Need something tough!
 
#122 · (Edited)
Yeah but if I wanted an engine to tune well it'd be a vag :)

My mission ain't figures kiddo. Well it is. But the dyno day is the end of the project not the start if you know what I mean.

It's always been about taking something totally ordinary and ... dare I say it...crap, and doing something with it :)

I was driving a tud5 lump when I experienced my first drive of a subaru impreza. That was my first experience of 200+bhp. What happened when i got out? I forgot the impreza, sold the 106 and bought an L series.

Just how it rolls I'm afraid!
 
#123 ·
Lol.. Vag is too easy. I know what you mean though.. I would love to have a little sleeper. If I did go down that route (after i get bored if my current BMW obsession) I'd be goin for Volvo. Woosh they are quick! And so unexpectedly so.
If I ever had the time and money I would love a project car that involved water or steam injection. I already drew a few plans up for the ZR to have it (knowing I would never do it). Preferably a carburetted engine or single point injection would be best. :D
 
#124 ·
Well it's gotta be tough. It can't have a set tuning procedure, it'd have to be something to think about.

Take the 1.5 nasp peugeot lump for example. You'd draw up a list of everything that's going against it (say, just about everything - displacement, valves, injection system) and once you've got over the fact there's almost no redeeming factors whatsoever you can start getting on with it anyway. Get out the drawing board and start from the beginning.

If you end up with a 100hp lump then as far as I'm concerned you've done well :)

I mean, it's not something i'm going to do (for ages anyway) but it's the sort of thing I've really liked about the last year, as slow as it's been it's been a lot of independent work, and I don't think following pre-set tuning routes from tried and known methods would hold my attention much anymore (unless it was just for powers sake, in which case any effective mod is a good mod).
 
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