620ti Head Gasket - again & possible fuel pump problem :-( - MG-Rover.org Forums
 
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-06-2017, 13:07 Thread Starter
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Unhappy 620ti Head Gasket - again & possible fuel pump problem :-(

A few years back my '99 620ti started overheating - initially just in traffic, later on fast driving. After a while I bit the bullet and had a place in Derby change the head gasket (they reckoned it needed 20 thou skimmed off the head). I wasn't impressed with the job - they stripped threads, missed refitting things (dipstick and tube weren't refitted, but luckily I spotted that when I collected it, I later found the alternator had a bolt missing, ) and broke the alternator plastic shield. But it went OK for a few years (4, I think - I forget exactly).
But recently it's been using a bit of water (Max down to Min in a couple of days).

A couple of weeks ago I parked for shopping and afterwards it wouldn't restart - it would turn over and fire once, then stop. Checked what I could, then phoned the RAC. He diagnosed a fuel pump problem and lay underneath, thumping the tank as I turned it over, and after a bit it started and ran OK, and continued to do so for a fortnight. I have to say I remember thumping Mini fuel pumps, but I thought "ours" were rotary, so stuck points seemed unlikely... Do you expect to *always* hear the "Brrrrp" of the pump when turning on the ignition, or may it sometimes not do that if the pressure has held up from earlier?

Then before going for a drive I topped up the expansion tank - and forgot to refit the cap! On arrival there was an explosion of water and steam out of the top. Luckily I had a spare cap with me, and enough water to fill it up. But it's started overheating again :-(

Then this week I drove about 10 miles and the temperature gauge suddenly made its way upwards rapidly. Stopped at traffic lights, I stopped the engine to give it a bit of a rest - and it wouldn't restart! Same as before, firing once then stopping. Tried thumping the fuel tank to no avail. Called RAC and reported the overheating - he diagnosed a failed head gasket and towed me home.
So now I'm stuck!

Anyone know of the fuel pump problem, and how to diagnose and fix it? (Looks like you have to remove the fuel tank, and pumps on eBay seem to be well over a hundred quid).

Anyone know of somwhere reliable who can change the head gasket - and perhaps replace the head, as it's clearly in a poor state of flatness again, and several exhaust manifold threads are bad (one won't even take a Helicoil!).

Failing those, anyone want a project car? :-#

Cheers,
Howard
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-06-2017, 13:58
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I cannot help much as I do not know about problems of fuel pumps, but access to fuel pump is through the boot. You need to remove hatch under which you will access the pump. If you are lucky it will be only some bad contact, as Rover 600s are pretty solid built cars, with very little "known" problems.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-06-2017, 16:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDRW View Post
...

I wasn't impressed with the job - they stripped threads, missed refitting things (dipstick and tube weren't refitted, but luckily I spotted that when I collected it, I later found the alternator had a bolt missing, ) and broke the alternator plastic shield.

...

Cheers,
Howard
How sad to read that. Same old, same old.

Over the past twenty years I've been using the Internet, lost count of the times I have seen comments like these.

Also lost count of the 620ti cars I have bought from frustrated previous owners about pro-work on their cars. Actually, it's about ten.

20 thou ,,, good grief! Bet it didn't need that much if any at all.

We always skim heads mate. ( even if they do not need it! )

If I did not have too many cars on my plate currently, I'd be very interested in making an offer on yours.

In your position, this is what I'd do. Go on here and any other MG and Rover sites you are a member and ask for recommendations of competent folks ( there are some around ~ trick is finding them ) to look at your car and diagnose best course of action. From what you say about overheating, the CHG may well be damaged ( they rarely fail particularly even on the T-Series ).

Have changed six CHGs on 620ti project cars. It's not rocket science.

Apparently ... in a parallel universe MGJohn drives .........A.......

B>>M>>W ....

Arrrrrggghhhhh......... ......
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-06-2017, 14:24 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Roverlike View Post
I cannot help much as I do not know about problems of fuel pumps, but access to fuel pump is through the boot. You need to remove hatch under which you will access the pump. If you are lucky it will be only some bad contact, as Rover 600s are pretty solid built cars, with very little "known" problems.
Thanks for that - I've seen it said that the pump is accessible via a boot hatch in one place, and that you have to drop the tank to get to it in another - so your second vote for the former is encouraging!

The issue is whether I spend the money and put in the work to replace it before I know whether I can get the head gasket fixed. I've just put two new tyres on it (Goodyear Efficientgrip Performance, which seem to be excellent) and as Halfords said they couldn't check the tracking until I replaced worn balljoints on the N/s top wishbone and track rod end, Ive bought two new wishbones and track rod ends, but haven't fitted them yet.

At what point do I give up and get another car (and what do I do with this one - the idea of scrapping it is something I don't want to think about at this point)?

Cheers,
Howard
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-06-2017, 14:54 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MGJohn View Post
How sad to read that. Same old, same old.

Over the past twenty years I've been using the Internet, lost count of the times I have seen comments like these.

Also lost count of the 620ti cars I have bought from frustrated previous owners about pro-work on their cars. Actually, it's about ten.
Indeed - this was a so-called specialist in this job, but I believe he got a "lad" to do most of the donkey work, like reassembling everything. And he must have been incredibly ham-fisted and inept, so the boss should have checked his work afterwards, at least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MGJohn View Post
20 thou ,,, good grief! Bet it didn't need that much if any at all.

We always skim heads mate. ( even if they do not need it! )
Well he said he'd started with a smaller amount, but it wasn't enough so he had to do more. I don't know how much is safe, but I wish I'd got another head instead, now! Are they still available anywhere?

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If I did not have too many cars on my plate currently, I'd be very interested in making an offer on yours.
That would be good - what about a swap? I can give you two for one! (I have a 1995 model in the garden).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MGJohn View Post
In your position, this is what I'd do. Go on here and any other MG and Rover sites you are a member and ask for recommendations of competent folks ( there are some around ~ trick is finding them ) to look at your car and diagnose best course of action. From what you say about overheating, the CHG may well be damaged ( they rarely fail particularly even on the T-Series ).
I don't actually know of any other sites. And I was hoping this thread would elicit the sort of advice you mention, but nothing yet. I seem to remember that last time I got two recommendations, one in Kent I think (Russell?) who when I contacted him said he didn't do them any more, and the one I actually went with. Who said they could do it at the roadside unless the head needed skimming... but then changed their minds and collected it on a truck.

I didn't mention earlier, that apart from using a bit of water for the past few months, after overnight parking it has also had a tendency to start on three cylinders, with the fourth joining in about a minute later, so I suspect a slight water-to-cylinder leak had developed, and the overheat due to my stupidly leaving off the cap has made it worse so it's now a fully blown gasket!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MGJohn View Post
Have changed six CHGs on 620ti project cars. It's not rocket science.
Maybe not for you! I'm just not up to it these days, and I don't have anywhere to do it. My hands are just too big and clumsy to reach down around the engine in a lot of places (biggest job I've done was replacing the water pump, and I only just managed that). And I think it really needs a new head, because most of the exhaust manifold stud-holes are stipped to a greater or lesser extent.

Aside: something I found out from the RAC bloke: if I hadn't been a member, they charge 7 a mile for towing!

Cheers,
Howard
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-06-2017, 15:29
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Few suggestions. If you have any "Remove it yourself" Scrap Yards locally, check them for possible donor cars.

My son has a 217,000 mile 620ti he has used for over ten years and picked up a NASP T-Series cylinder head recently on a "come in handy one day" basis. I alerted him to the 420 Rover with T-Series engine and he removed the head.

There again, check ebay etc for folks breaking T-Series Rovers and see what they can do.

Ten-twelve years ago, when T-Series were more frequent in local yards, I used to remove good heads from tidy scrap cars I spotted. Some are thrown away with only 50-60,000 miles showing like my son's recent donor car we found in a local yard.

Swapping heads is often a better option than repairing damaged ones like the one on your poor car appears now to be.

All the above worth doing if car is a nice example otherwise. These 620ti cars now are popular with folks wanting a 200bhp transplant for their MG ZRs and MG ZSs. The last one I sold three years ago a year later appeared on ebay "breaking/spares or repair" ... minus engine, turbo and gearbox. The seller even used an old photo of mine he lifted off the web to show the car...

Apparently ... in a parallel universe MGJohn drives .........A.......

B>>M>>W ....

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-06-2017, 21:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDRW View Post
Thanks for that - I've seen it said that the pump is accessible via a boot hatch in one place, and that you have to drop the tank to get to it in another - so your second vote for the former is encouraging!

The issue is whether I spend the money and put in the work to replace it before I know whether I can get the head gasket fixed. I've just put two new tyres on it (Goodyear Efficientgrip Performance, which seem to be excellent) and as Halfords said they couldn't check the tracking until I replaced worn balljoints on the N/s top wishbone and track rod end, Ive bought two new wishbones and track rod ends, but haven't fitted them yet.

At what point do I give up and get another car (and what do I do with this one - the idea of scrapping it is something I don't want to think about at this point)?

Cheers,
Howard
Pump is not accessible through the boot access panel I'm afraid.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 05-06-2017, 21:08
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Originally Posted by HDRW View Post
Maybe not for you! I'm just not up to it these days, and I don't have anywhere to do it. My hands are just too big and clumsy to reach down around the engine in a lot of places (biggest job I've done was replacing the water pump, and I only just managed that). And I think it really needs a new head, because most of the exhaust manifold stud-holes are stipped to a greater or lesser extent.
Once the head is off it is easy enough to fit helicoils (or timecerts if they are really bad). I did all mine when I had the head off as it is such a common issue. Also using studs instead of bolts helps a lot too.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-06-2017, 05:23
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Originally Posted by E_T_V View Post
Pump is not accessible through the boot access panel I'm afraid.
I checked workshop manual when E_T_V warned that pump cannot be accessed through the boot access panel, and unfortunately I have to admit that it says fuel tank needs to be removed in order to access the fuel pump.

I am sorry to bring false hopes to this thread.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-06-2017, 22:25
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Yep. And the bolts are err rather stubbourn to come out. I ended up breaking mine.

20160625_142721 by E_T_V, on Flickr

Mine is a diesel so no in tank pump. However it would fit in the passenger side hole if it was (same tank on all models I think). The fuel gauge sender is on the drivers side and the wiring goes through the access hatch inside the car.
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 18-06-2017, 14:48 Thread Starter
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Well it's looking like the end of the line for me and 620tis :-( I can't find anyone who will even quote for doing the head gasket (and changing the head) and having been without a car for over a fortnight, which is a right pain, and no solution in sight, I've gone for a replacement car: a Subaru Forester - I first drove one in New Zealand, and it was very impressive on their "non-metalled" roads. My fiancee has one in New York and it copes brilliantly with the snow over there, so I know what they're like (I occasionally need to go slightly off road (down tracks rather than across fields) so this is a good choice.
So now I have *two* 620tis that need to go - the "current" 1999 (T-reg) with almost certainly a blown head gasket, a suspect fuel pump (but this was never proved), a dent to the o/s rear where a gate post jumped out at me as I was reversing, and some other niggles (radio antenna stopped extending, windscreen washers packed up - I have the replacement pump but didn't get round to fitting it. I put two new tyres on the front (Goodyear Efficient Grip Performance, about 125 the pair) a few weeks ago. Halfords said the n/s top balljoint and track rod end had some play, so I have new top wishbones and track-rod ends for both sides, again not fitted.
Then at the bottom of the garden is a 1995 (N-reg) which was fine when I parked it there (when I bought the "new" one) but I'm an idiot and it's been sat there ever since (I didn't even send back the tax disc!).

I really hate the idea of scrapping either of them - anyone for a couple of projects?

Cheers,
Howard
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 18-06-2017, 15:02
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Originally Posted by HDRW View Post
Well it's looking like the end of the line for me and 620tis :-( I can't find anyone who will even quote for doing the head gasket (and changing the head) and having been without a car for over a fortnight, which is a right pain, and no solution in sight, I've gone for a replacement car: a Subaru Forester - I first drove one in New Zealand, and it was very impressive on their "non-metalled" roads. My fiancee has one in New York and it copes brilliantly with the snow over there, so I know what they're like (I occasionally need to go slightly off road (down tracks rather than across fields) so this is a good choice.
So now I have *two* 620tis that need to go - the "current" 1999 (T-reg) with almost certainly a blown head gasket, a suspect fuel pump (but this was never proved), a dent to the o/s rear where a gate post jumped out at me as I was reversing, and some other niggles (radio antenna stopped extending, windscreen washers packed up - I have the replacement pump but didn't get round to fitting it. I put two new tyres on the front (Goodyear Efficient Grip Performance, about 125 the pair) a few weeks ago. Halfords said the n/s top balljoint and track rod end had some play, so I have new top wishbones and track-rod ends for both sides, again not fitted.
Then at the bottom of the garden is a 1995 (N-reg) which was fine when I parked it there (when I bought the "new" one) but I'm an idiot and it's been sat there ever since (I didn't even send back the tax disc!).

I really hate the idea of scrapping either of them - anyone for a couple of projects?

Cheers,
Howard
Have you contacted any of the travelling Rover-MG specialists who do Head gasket Repairs to K-Series. The job with the T Series is much the same, easier in my experience on the T despite heavier components. Try those first there are at least three who are on ebay, here "Kayleigh"and 75/ZT Club.

If I did not already have too much on my plate I'd gladly take on another project or repair. June and July I need to MoT no less than SIX of my family's cars. Two down so far and passed, four to go ... plus too many other projects on the go.

The 620ti is one of my all time favourite "ordinary" production cars.

Failing all that, put both on ebay at a starting price you'd be happy to accept. MG ZR/ZS enthusiasts like to uprate their cars to 200bhp and the 620ti is an ideal donor car.

Three years ago, I sold my White Gold S-Reg 620ti. A year later, that car appeared on ebay "spares". All parts available except engine, turbo and gearbox...the seller even used one of my own pictures of the car he obtained from web search.

The engines, turbos and particularly TorSen Differential PG1 Gearboxes make good money now for the above reasons.

Apparently ... in a parallel universe MGJohn drives .........A.......

B>>M>>W ....

Arrrrrggghhhhh......... ......
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 18-06-2017, 20:57
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Well it's looking like the end of the line for me and 620tis :-( I can't find anyone who will even quote for doing the head gasket (and changing the head) and having been without a car for over a fortnight, which is a right pain, and no solution in sight, I've gone for a replacement car: a Subaru Forester - I first drove one in New Zealand, and it was very impressive on their "non-metalled" roads. My fiancee has one in New York and it copes brilliantly with the snow over there, so I know what they're like (I occasionally need to go slightly off road (down tracks rather than across fields) so this is a good choice.
So now I have *two* 620tis that need to go - the "current" 1999 (T-reg) with almost certainly a blown head gasket, a suspect fuel pump (but this was never proved), a dent to the o/s rear where a gate post jumped out at me as I was reversing, and some other niggles (radio antenna stopped extending, windscreen washers packed up - I have the replacement pump but didn't get round to fitting it. I put two new tyres on the front (Goodyear Efficient Grip Performance, about 125 the pair) a few weeks ago. Halfords said the n/s top balljoint and track rod end had some play, so I have new top wishbones and track-rod ends for both sides, again not fitted.
Then at the bottom of the garden is a 1995 (N-reg) which was fine when I parked it there (when I bought the "new" one) but I'm an idiot and it's been sat there ever since (I didn't even send back the tax disc!).

I really hate the idea of scrapping either of them - anyone for a couple of projects?

Cheers,
Howard

Hi Howard, only just noticed you're in S Herts. Not sure how driveable your Ti is (was), would have recommended contacting Albie Autos in Welwyn Garden City if you could have got it there. He knows Rovers, having serviced my Ti, owned a few himself as well over the years.

Much to my OH's dismay he reckons original Ti's have got to the point they'll now start appreciating.


Enjoy the Forrester, heard they're decent motors.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 20-06-2017, 13:14 Thread Starter
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Stephen,
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Hi Howard, only just noticed you're in S Herts. Not sure how driveable your Ti is (was), would have recommended contacting Albie Autos in Welwyn Garden City if you could have got it there. He knows Rovers, having serviced my Ti, owned a few himself as well over the years.
Thanks for the pointer - they are now "Burrowfield Auto Services", in Woodfield Road (Google maps shows a "Albie's Autos have moved" sign at their old address).
They reckon 800 to 1000 if it doesn't need a new head!
Sadly it's looking more and more like a scrapyard will be the destination
My Other Half keeps nagging me to get the space back so we can park the "New" car there!
Cheers,
Howard
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 20-06-2017, 16:46
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Stephen,

Thanks for the pointer - they are now "Burrowfield Auto Services", in Woodfield Road (Google maps shows a "Albie's Autos have moved" sign at their old address).
They reckon 800 to 1000 if it doesn't need a new head!
Sadly it's looking more and more like a scrapyard will be the destination
My Other Half keeps nagging me to get the space back so we can park the "New" car there!
Cheers,
Howard

Ouch, that was more than I thought they'd come back with. Forgot he'd moved and changed name.


Not sounding good unless you can do it yourself.


[It was me with previous post, some sort of cock-up in trying to get my password reset seems to have inadvertently given me access to an old profile of someone else. Nice to have finally got it sorted and be back with my "proper" forum name.


The ads etc... on this site now almost make it unusable on my computer, seems even worse than when I was last on here a few years ago]
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 20-06-2017, 17:13
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With scrap metal prices being what they are, you'll get little money for it.

I'd still try shopping around for someone who could do it at a more reasonable price ~ if you were nearer I would for one ~ or, ask over on Rovertech.net and 75/ZT Club enthusiast sites. Several able folks on those sites who may be near you and can do it at reasonable cost.

If you finally decide not to repair, on no account take it to be scrapped. Find out what scrap merchants are prepared to give you for it and then come back here and tell us what you've been offered. Someone will be interested and give you rather more than scrap value to take it away .... including me.

Apparently ... in a parallel universe MGJohn drives .........A.......

B>>M>>W ....

Arrrrrggghhhhh......... ......
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The ads etc... on this site now almost make it unusable on my computer, seems even worse than when I was last on here a few years ago]
Get Adblocker plus installed, problem with ads will be no more
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 10:20
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Not an option when the computer you're using is owned by another organisation (if you catch my drift).
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 21:22
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Not an option when the computer you're using is owned by another organisation (if you catch my drift).

If its a laptop, clone the hard drive and then you can just boot to the clone drive and put adblocker on it
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