So, what have you done to your Rover 600 Today? - MG-Rover.org Forums
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post #1 of 1293 (permalink) Old 31-10-2013, 17:49 Thread Starter
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Unhappy So, what have you done to your Rover 600 Today?

Tell you what I've done to the R-Reg 620ti I purchased last month. Investigated why my SRS light does not illuminate on ignition start up. This has been annoying me for a month or so. I mentioned it to the previous owner when I bought it asking if anyone had removed the SRS bulb in the instrument binnacle. He had no idea about that. Although some years in the trade, he was a bodyshop and paintshop man rather than under the bonnet stuff at a Rover main dealership.

Anyway, there was no bulb there and I fitted a good replacement and now the Red SRS Light is on all the time the car is being driven.

Right now's the time to break out some special equipment such a a bent paper clip... I then accessed the yellow SRS connector spur on the loom behind the drop down drawer above the driver's knee. I actually removed the whole panel with the drawer to provide better access. That also gave better access to the male OBD port nearby on the same metal cross member as the SRS spur connector. More about the OBD plug later.

Using that off-cut of the paper clip, I followed the SRS Reset Light procedure in the hand written note I made some years ago. Works every time provided the system is in order. It worked again today and I was relieved to see the light go out after the six second system check when switching on the ignition.

With that panel removed, using my T-300 and one of Technozen's modified cables, I was able to access the fault codes. There were quite a few and I also used it to check the fault codes on the P-Reg MGF. The two MGF fault codes were the same as two of those on the 620ti.

Despite all those OBD Fault Codes, both cars run really well.

The sequence of the attached pictures give an idea of today's works on the cars.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg MG and Rover various 017.JPG (110.4 KB, 84 views)
File Type: jpg MG and Rover various 005.JPG (91.4 KB, 78 views)
File Type: jpg MG and Rover various 002.JPG (108.4 KB, 81 views)
File Type: jpg MG and Rover various 003.JPG (80.0 KB, 77 views)
File Type: jpg MG and Rover various 015.JPG (92.3 KB, 79 views)
File Type: jpg MG and Rover various 008.JPG (91.6 KB, 78 views)
File Type: jpg MG and Rover various 014.JPG (86.8 KB, 77 views)
File Type: jpg MGF & Rover 620ti OBD Fault Codes 001.JPG (107.9 KB, 77 views)
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post #2 of 1293 (permalink) Old 31-10-2013, 18:07
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The cars are still running well, despite the sensor failures, because the MEMS ECU implements back-up values for the failed sensors. A back-up value is provided for the coolant temperature sensor, inlet air temperature sensor and manifold absolute pressure sensor.

Back-up values:
Coolant temperature sensor 60 C
Inlet air temperature sensor 35 C
Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor. The ECU implements air fuel ratio relating to engine speed and throttle position.

Due to this ECU back-up ability, for some of the sensors, you might not be aware that some sensors are not working unless you use diagnostics equipment.

That T-300 is a useful tool to have.

I have a question, with a non functioning crank position sensor, shouldn't the car not be able to start?

Last edited by denis747; 31-10-2013 at 18:23.
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post #3 of 1293 (permalink) Old 31-10-2013, 18:54
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Just a note for you, though you probably already know, loss of syc crank sensor codes can be stored, by MEMS 1.9, just because the car was stalled. In my experience when the crank sensor is at fault the car just cuts out randomlly and leaves NO fault codes.
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post #4 of 1293 (permalink) Old 01-11-2013, 01:05 Thread Starter
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One of the main reasons I take the time to post threads like these is the informative responses they sometimes generate.

Like these two from Denis and henocsr.

I've learned some more stuff today as a result. Thanks fellas ...
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post #5 of 1293 (permalink) Old 01-11-2013, 01:22
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I find this post interesting, as i am still learning more and more about my Ti in the past 7 months of owning it.
As i dont have a T300 to check for error codes, is there a way of checking temp sensors and o2 sensor for propper working order?
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post #6 of 1293 (permalink) Old 01-11-2013, 08:00 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rez0 View Post
I find this post interesting, as i am still learning more and more about my Ti in the past 7 months of owning it.
As i dont have a T300 to check for error codes, is there a way of checking temp sensors and o2 sensor for propper working order?
For information and for the benefit of those who do not know, the T-300 will work on the OBD and OBD2 systems on a vast range of marques and models. Not just MGs and ROVERs. You name it it will do it.

Initially expensive ( they can be obtained at less expensive prices now ), used mine on all my own and family's cars as well as those of friends and work colleagues etc. So it has already more than paid for itself as the costs of a visit to a pro-garage for a diagnostics check soon mounts up with so many cars in the family. Last one some years ago cost my son 60 including the VAT.
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File Type: jpg MG and Rover various 013.JPG (96.4 KB, 29 views)
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post #7 of 1293 (permalink) Old 01-11-2013, 09:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denis747 View Post
I have a question, with a non functioning crank position sensor, shouldn't the car not be able to start?
On the T16 if it is a distributor model it has both cam and crank sensors. If one fails the other takes over and the car will still run as normal albeit with slightly modified fuelling (batch firing rather than sequential firing).
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post #8 of 1293 (permalink) Old 01-11-2013, 12:37
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...whereas on the 75 diesel it just won't start and is a bit of a pig to change. Technology moving forwards? Perhaps not...
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post #9 of 1293 (permalink) Old 01-11-2013, 13:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MGJohn View Post
For information and for the benefit of those who do not know, the T-300 will work on the OBD and OBD2 systems on a vast range of marques and models. Not just MGs and ROVERs. You name it it will do it.

Initially expensive ( they can be obtained at less expensive prices now ), used mine on all my own and family's cars as well as those of friends and work colleagues etc. So it has already more than paid for itself as the costs of a visit to a pro-garage for a diagnostics check soon mounts up with so many cars in the family. Last one some years ago cost my son 60 including the VAT.
I see T300's going for 120-150 USD at the moment, not in a rush to get one, but i am keen on checking for error codes.
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post #10 of 1293 (permalink) Old 01-11-2013, 13:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rez0 View Post
I find this post interesting, as i am still learning more and more about my Ti in the past 7 months of owning it.
As i dont have a T300 to check for error codes, is there a way of checking temp sensors and o2 sensor for propper working order?
For the coolant temperature sensor, if I remember correctly, if your fans are working ok, disconnecting the coolant temperature sensor should turn on the fans. The sensor changes its resistance with temperature change so you can use a digital multi-meter to determine its resistance with temperature change. For the oxygen sensor, you need an oscilloscope or a digital multimeter (don't use an anologue multi-meter as it will cause damage to the sensor and, possibly, the ECU).
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post #11 of 1293 (permalink) Old 01-11-2013, 21:34
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Great idea of using a mirror on the floor to see under the dash.

Why didnt i think of that? Doh!!

Will any OBD code reader work on the 600 as i have a unit not T300 but similar?
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post #12 of 1293 (permalink) Old 02-11-2013, 12:46
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No as it isn't OBDII compatible.
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post #13 of 1293 (permalink) Old 10-11-2013, 13:58 Thread Starter
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Took advantage of the superb sunshine in a cloudless sky only spoilt by vapour trails of the jetliners high in the atmosphere fresh out of Heathrow.

The recent 620ti purchase has a few niggles. The radio aerial mast is lazy and does not always retract fully. A temptation for scumbag vandals.

On a recent breaker yard visit just prior to this recent purchase, I looked into the boot of a high mileage Rover 600 and was delighted to discover a fairly new OE Electric aerial. Although I had no real eed for it, nearly new parts always come in handy and if resold, never lose money. Fortuitously, it did come in handy and I spent a leisure hour fitting it in place of the faulty one. With all the floor carpets in the boot removed, took the opportunity for a clean up. Much better and two birds one stone scenario.

By the way, it can pay off to check tatty high mileage cars in the yards. Those will often have near new replacement expensive items like starters, Alternators etc and in this instance, a near new Electric aerial in perfect working order. I removed part of its loom three wire connections with the aerial and thus was able to check its operation using a car battery at the yard. It raised and lowered just like a new one should.

The other minor issue is a suspect Thermostat. Although the heater blows hot just as I like it, Throttle lift off particularly on a long downhill run with a closed throttle sees the needle on the temperature gauge plunge down towards cold start level. Possibly affects fuel consumption too as sensor may falsely detect a cold engine. Replaced that so all should now be well with the cooling. I collected the coolant spill in a bowl under the Top Hose where the Thermostat is located. Replaced that and topped up with just water. Could not see what kind of anti-freeze had been installed. I will drain and flush asap and charge with fresh 50-50 OAT.

See attached images.
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File Type: jpg R910 CAE Elecric Aerial Replacement 2.JPG (108.6 KB, 48 views)
File Type: jpg R910 CAE Elecric Aerial Replacement 1.JPG (104.6 KB, 43 views)
File Type: jpg R910 CAE New Thermostat Replacement.JPG (150.5 KB, 43 views)
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post #14 of 1293 (permalink) Old 10-11-2013, 16:25
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Over the last few weekends I have had a bit of work doing to my 620ti in readiness for the Mot due in december,Denis came over and fitted my car with New discs and pads all round did a marvelous job too and also fitted a new upper wishbone to the front left side this weekend as well as replacing a lower balljoint gaiter,well done to Denis as he toiled all day to do the front brakes as we all know they are a pig of a job and i would not have had a clue what to do with stripping down the front hubs!
All i need to do now is wait for the mot and see if anything is found,one area of concern is a vibration through the car when accelarating from 40- 60 mph,i have rule out tyre balancing as they have all been checked and are fine,the only thing i can think is maybe engine or gear box mounts?
anyone have any ideas!
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post #15 of 1293 (permalink) Old 10-11-2013, 16:38 Thread Starter
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Always hard to diagnose things like these remotely.

My son had what you describe in his high mileage 620ti.

We checked everything we could think of but drew a blank. The clunks continued.

Then, later when doing another job on the car, it was necessary to support the sump on a trolley jack. That revealed the damaged main Engine Mount on the timing side has severed the rubber. Probably simple age and fatigue after close on 200,000 miles.



Thing was, it would seat properly when lifting the bonnet to check things and gave no clue of the wear damage unseen under the Big Alloy Bracket.
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post #16 of 1293 (permalink) Old 10-11-2013, 18:50
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may have to have a look at that next time i can gewt the car up on a ramp,there is no clunking or noise when the vibration occurs,i s it an easy job to replace the mount?
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post #17 of 1293 (permalink) Old 10-11-2013, 19:10
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One of mine exhaust back box two tail pipes shiny chrome trim decided to loosen some time ago. When I removed it (I was lucky it was not fell off while I was driving), I found out that bolt got married with welded net, and they rusted together so badly that nothing was holding the trim on the tail pipe.
On the other hand there was no way I could remove the rest of the bolt from the nut. So I needed to grind it off.
On Friday I got weld the new nut on the inside of the trim and this time used stainless steel bolt to fix it on the tail pipe.
Now I have two shiny trims back again.

I wonder when second trim will decide to loose? I imagine there is no way to remove the bolt from that one either?...
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post #18 of 1293 (permalink) Old 12-11-2013, 19:27 Thread Starter
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Thumbs up Good news ~ MoT test a pass for 620ti.

That's what I did today.

11.30 a.m. appointment arriving on the dot with a nicely warmed up car. The emissions are always an unknown quantity to me but, the old gel passed those within a massive margin. A brand new car would hardly better those readings. Look at those :~



Then up on the ramps for under car checks :~



Took a picture of the car with the recently fitted refurbished wheels and new UNIROYAL Rainsport 2s all round. Liking those tyres so far.



One advisory, the tester detected some slight wear in the offside Track Rod End (TRE). A doddle to replace and not an expensive item.

Came back up the M5 and gave the old car some exercise ~ went superbly as this car always does. Had it close to eight years now. It's a good 'n considering the car left the production line back in 1998. Not bad at all.
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post #19 of 1293 (permalink) Old 12-11-2013, 20:47
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looking sweet
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post #20 of 1293 (permalink) Old 12-11-2013, 21:23
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That looks very nice indeed with the white wheels. In the sunlight it really does show it off to its best.

Well done John.

Oh and its stopped raining! and, a MOT you must have been praying very hard
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