1994 214 SLi hesitation/juddering - please help !

[ShaunD]

I wonder if anyone can point me in the right direction with the above problem that our everyday and very needed car has developed

Basically over the last couple of months or so the car has started to develop a hesitation/juddering when warmed up (when cold it seems fine) and while under acceleration between about 1800 - 3000 rpm. It hasn't been too bad up until the last week or so when it seems to have got worse, a couple of times it feels like I am towing a truck or the like behind me as the car seems to loose a lot of power when it does this hesitation/juddering until 3,000 rpm when it normally clears and all seems fine. Last night though the problem re appeared and it was terrible and in 2nd & 3rd gears it was at it's worst, one time I planted my foot to the floor in 3rd when it started at around 2,000 rpm and it was hesitating way past 3,000 and all the way to just over 4,000 rpm when I changed into 4th and it seemed to improve. What I can't figure out though is that sometimes it doesn't do it at all, it has been getting more and more common over the last couple of weeks though.

I have found that if I gently use the throttle when this hesitation/juddering occurs I can normally get through it without hardly noticing that there is a problem, if I use something like a quarter throttle or more then the problem is a lot worse.

I have put new plugs in, new ht leads, new dizzy cap, new rotor arm, but it hasn't made a difference.

Any suggestions as to what to try next ? I have done some searching on here and I see that the crank sensor seems to crop up a lot, is this worth changing and does anyone know where I can get one from ? I haven't got any dealers near me now (Basildon Essex) as they closed when Rover did earlier this year.

I need to try and get this sorted asap as the wife uses this car to/from work every day so we do use this car a lot as it's the main workhorse ! It has now got just over 100,000 miles on the clock and we have had up until now around 15,000 completely trouble free miles in her.

One again, any help is very much appreciated.

Cheers

Shaun.

[ash7990]

it could be your clutch on the way out

[E_T_V]

Crank sensor would be my first guess after the HT leads. Any motorfactor will be able to get you one or take one from a scrap car, they are all the same on the K series I believe and although a bit fiddly they are easy enough to fit. Try removing and cleaning your old one first as they are magnetic and so can get clogged with metal filings making them less reliable. Also have you changed the fuel filter recently?

If you look at the back of the engine where it meets the gearbox you'll see a blue plug bolted to the top of the gearbox. This is the connector for the crank sensor. Follow the wire down the back of the engine to find the sensor. It is held in by one or two? small (8mm?) bolts.

[ShaunD]

Originally Posted by E_T_V

Crank sensor would be my first guess after the HT leads. Any motorfactor will be able to get you one or take one from a scrap car, they are all the same on the K series I believe and although a bit fiddly they are easy enough to fit. Try removing and cleaning your old one first as they are magnetic and so can get clogged with metal filings making them less reliable. Also have you changed the fuel filter recently?

If you look at the back of the engine where it meets the gearbox you'll see a blue plug bolted to the top of the gearbox. This is the connector for the crank sensor. Follow the wire down the back of the engine to find the sensor. It is held in by one or two? small (8mm?) bolts.

Funny you should say that re the fuel filter as that's one thing that I haven't changed, could this cause the problem's then ? Actually I have a brand new one at home for when I had my older 214 GSi over a year ago, I don't know if this would fit the 214 SLi or not though ? my old car had the 1.4 K single point injection and no cat whereas my current SLi has the 1.4 K multi point injection and cat. Does anyone know if they would be the same for both ?

With regard to the crank sensor possibility, okay, I will check out it's location at the weekend and see if I can source one anywhere, I only hope that the 8mm bolt doesn't snap when I attempt to take it out !!

I very much doubt it's the clutch going even though the bite point is quite high and always has been since we have owned this car. When the hesitation/juddering occurs the revs drop like the ignition is being cut or the engine is being starved of fuel. I also did the clutch test the other day where with the handbrake on and 1st or 2nd gear come off the clutch and the car stalled immediately which usually indicates that the clutch is okay for the time being.

Cheers

Shaun.

[ShaunD]

The car went in today to have the crank sensor replaced, the wife went and collected the car this afternoon as I was at work and although I haven't driven the car yet she says it's like a different car to drive now !

It now accellerates smooth and pulls really well so she told me, I will drive the car at the weekend to see for myself but if the wifes comments are anything to go by the car is definately better.

The garage also said that if the sensor doesn't solve the problem to bring it back to them and they will investigate further to solve it once and for all !!

Cheers

Shaun.

[northernsoulie]

been watching this thread with interest, and pleased to hear of a successful outcome, as shaunD's problem is similar to one i have.

crank sensor sounds a good thing to check, but in a 414i where exactly is it? E_T_V's advice doesn't seem to apply to this model.

[ShaunD]

Oh well just when I was thinking the problem had been solved it's back again !

I drove the car for the first time since the new crank sensor today, taking the wife to work (about 8 miles away) and all was briliant, the car was pulling lovely and was as smooth as anything, coming home however was different, came round a roundabout in 3rd and while accellerating away got to about 1800 rpm and it starting pulling back and misfireing again 4th was a little better and again going lightly on the throttle it still does it but not so bad. It has done this about 7 or 8 times today and I have just about had enough of this car now, up until this it was a lovely car now I feel like I am banging my head on a brick wall trying to discover what has suddenly gone wrong !

I will be taking it back to the garage next week when they are open again, for the meantime though this afternoon I have gone and purchased a new ignition coil to fit tomorrow to see if this makes it any better

As from tomorrow the car would have had the following changed and it's still doing the same thing:

Spark plugs (twice & old ones re fitted today to test and still the same)
HT leads
Distributor cap
Rotor arm
Crank sensor (2nd hand)
Ignition coil
ECU vaccum pipe cleaned (a little muck came out but hardly anything)

Does anyone else have any ideas as to what's wrong ? me and the wife only need the car to last another 6 months or so until we hopefully move to Sweden ! Until then though this car is needed badly on a daily basis and I don't want to have to keep throwing money at it !

Any help as always is much appreciated.

Shaun.

[dazultra2000]

I think the fuel system/cat need to be checked...

also a compression test wouldn't go amiss

[dazultra2000]

Originally Posted by northernsoulie

been watching this thread with interest, and pleased to hear of a successful outcome, as shaunD's problem is similar to one i have.

crank sensor sounds a good thing to check, but in a 414i where exactly is it? E_T_V's advice doesn't seem to apply to this model.

Crank sensor will be in the same place.

Back of the engine, under the inlet manifold, quite a way down. Blue plug (usually) on one end (with cable coming off it to some other part of the car, not sure which off hand), the other end attached to the engine block.

[ShaunD]

Well I changed the ignition coil today and the car has done it again this evening it sems strange though that it appears to do it more when I am going round or exiting out of a corner (not always though) and when the car is fully up to temperature, when it is cold it doesn't appear to do it hardly at all.

I have also got a new fuel filter to try but I couldn't get the bottom union nut undone today as it has siezed solid, the spanner actually started to cut into the nut, the top one was similar but gave in and released in the end wheras the bottom wasn't having any of it, I haven't a clue how I am going to change that now !

Looks like I will have to call the garage tomorrow to see what they say re replacing the fuel pump as there is no way I am going to tackle that outside home !

I have just about had it with this poxy car now and am running out of options and money fast, both of which I could do without before christmas

Shaun.

[ash7990]

it is not a "poxy little car" at all. you have to expect problems with cars, especially a car thats 12 years old. you get problems with every car.

[ShaunD]

Originally Posted by ash7990

it is not a "poxy little car" at all. you have to expect problems with cars, especially a car thats 12 years old. you get problems with every car.

Point taken, there comes a time though where you have to draw the line on how much money you can spend on a car thats only worth a few hundred pounds at best I think you'd agree !

With what I have spent on this car recently the line is now approaching very fast indeed.

[ash7990]

Originally Posted by ShaunD

Point taken, there comes a time though where you have to draw the line on how much money you can spend on a car thats only worth a few hundred pounds at best I think you'd agree !

With what I have spent on this car recently the line is now approaching very fast indeed.

agreed, been in that situation several times with various cars. i have found very often that the part at fault isnt neccisarily that expensive, its just the money you spend on the way replacing parts untill youve found whats at fault. so think carfully before you start buying random things on a "guess" basis.

[ShaunD]

Just to keep people posted (if anyone is interested that is !) that the fuel filter in addition to everything else listed on this thread has now been changed and the car has done it yet again today & was just as bad as ever !

As usual it didn't do it while warming up but once up to temperature I turned onto our estate where we live and as I tried to accellerate in 2nd gear it started to hesitate/misfire badly, I changed into third and had my foot on the floor just to make it up the hill without stopping & revs not going above 2500 rpm ! the strange thing though was when I dipped the clutch the car revs fine.

I am now at a total loss as to what is wrong, my local garage have said they would change the fuel pump if I want them too but as it's a big job they recommend against it as the car is simply not worth it.

I feel like this car is dying fast now and I can't find out why as nothing I have tried has fixed it !!

[E_T_V]

If the HT leads are good, the crank sensor good and the fuel filter not blocked then I am running out of ideas. I had a similar problem which turned out to be a dirty connection to the fuel pump in the wiring somewhere so it is worth tracing all the joints in the wiring for the fuel pump and cleaning them up. If you do a forum search on posts from me and 214 then you'll probably find it.

[E_T_V]

The posts on my 214's problems.. Does any of it sound similar?


http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=65770
http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=49541

[ShaunD]

Originally Posted by E_T_V

The posts on my 214's problems.. Does any of it sound similar?


http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=65770
http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=49541

Many thanks for your links above.

Yes, this does sound very similar to what mine is doing, one minute its fine then the next it's not, the only constant thing with mine is that it does not do it when it's cold, only when up to temp and has been running for 10 mins or so. It appears to do it more just after coming round a bend and I am accellerating but this is not always the case.

The list of what has been changed now is.

Spark plugs (Twice)
HT leads
Distributor cap
Rotor arm
Ignition coil
Crank sensor
Fuel filter
Air filter

My garage have talked me out of changing the fuel pump now as it's going to cost almost as much as the car is worth !

I really am stumped now as up to a few weeks ago this car had been running like a dream, it now has 101,000 miles and me and the wife had done 10,000 miles totally trouble free over the last year, all of a sudden this is happening and I can't find out why.

I was planning on taking this car to Sweden with me when I move there next year but with this problem that I can't solve I don't think that'll be happening now, now I am more concerned with the car lasting the next few months until we move hopefully !

If you have any other suggestions then I would gladly give them a go unless it involves removing the fuel tank to get to the pump which is something I will not attempt !!

Many thanks

Shaun.

[E_T_V]

Trace the fuel pump wiring back from the tank (the connections are on top of the tank in the boot I think) and trace it back with the haynes manual cleaning every connector thoroughly along the way till it gets to the relay or ecu etc.

Another rather more radical and potentially a little more dangerous way to test if this is the problem is to wire a 12v feed temporarily via a switch to the pump. (Note if you crash the fuel pump won't switch off automatically which is why it is a bit dodgy). If the problem magically goes away when the 12v feed is applied then it would indicate dodgy fuel pump wiring somwhere rather than a faulty pump. I hope that makes some sense.