Quick question - how can you tell its a genuine ZS and a genuine 180 - MG-Rover.org Forums

Chris71 · 02-08-2006, 17:23

Hi,

I'm probably being paranoid and you all have my permission to mock me if I do buy an MG and return to the forum!! But.....

Are there any ways of guaranteeing the car started out as a ZS?

Are there any ways of guaranteeing that it started out as a 180, rather than an engine transplant?

I know these plumb the depths of paranioa, but pelase humour me.

The main reason for asking is this.....

I looked at two Mk1 ZS 180's. The first (a hatch) had curvery, almost dome shaped front suspension turrets. The second (a saloon) had boxy, angular ones.

I presume this is just a difference between the saloon and the hatch, and I very much doubt someone would bother to clone what is, at the most £6 or 7ks worth of car, but answers on a postcard please.....

nOw2 · 02-08-2006, 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris71

Are there any ways of guaranteeing the car started out as a ZS?

RAC / DVLA checks may work.

http://www.rac.co.uk/web/vehiclechecks/dvla_lookup/
http://www.vehiclelicence.gov.uk/EvlPortalApp/ (enquiry on the left)

Quote:

Are there any ways of guaranteeing that it started out as a 180, rather than an engine transplant?

The VIN, if you have access to a database or if there is something in the VIN code that'd tell you.

Quote:

I looked at two Mk1 ZS 180's. The first (a hatch) had curvery, almost dome shaped front suspension turrets. The second (a saloon) had boxy, angular ones.

Windy · 02-08-2006, 18:13

For a quick check, just look for the MG Commission Number label by the drivers door - if its not there then be very suspicious.

patpending · 02-08-2006, 18:17

These are ways (above) to check for sure. You should probably check the V5 logbook too before carrying out the further checks (assuming it's genuine). One dealer volunteered it for me.

If you can, also have a good sniff round one on a kosher dealer's forecourt to see what things like the reargun turrets, I mean suspension turrets, look like. As I recall they are actually clad. I think there was a sort of fake "carpet wall" around them.

Learn what the 180 engine looks like. "A sort of big lump which gets hot after a long run" won't be good enough for what you want. Putting a 180 engine into another model will be "a mod too far" for most.

Mine is "stealth" in many ways - the bodykit was a favourite factory add-on for other models - the 180 is evidently the ZS people mod theirs to look like(and as we see here 180 bits - spoilers, alloys, sills - are popular for aftermarket add-ons). There is a "180" badge at the back on a Mk1 IIRC - not beyond the wit of man to fake! There is one on the Mk2 below the indicator repeaters (but I don't have it)...

In fact, as you are not well-versed in what the car should be like, and you are looking at the cheaper, older end of the range, the extra money you hand over to a reputable dealer should pay you dividends in terms of peace of mind and repair bills.

Otherwise, you will be spending what (for anything except cars and houses) is an inordinate sum with no guarantee you are getting value for money!

hth

stamford · 02-08-2006, 18:34

How far will someone go to clone a ZS? The commission number is a good sign, some people may overlook this plate.

Also the whole car would need changing if it were a Rover 45 to start with. The whole interior, seats, door cards, dashboard trims, dash dials. Suspension is somewhat harder than your average. Brakes too.

One particular thing would be the colour, how many ZS's share the same colour as Rover 45's? I cannot think of any colours that match come to think of it. Check the vin plate etc to check colour codes do match that of the ZS range.

zedster zs · 02-08-2006, 19:33

Chris if you wanna look at a genuine bonofide mint condition mk1 zs them you can have a look at mine, i'm not far from the dartford crossing so could meet you at lakeside if you want.

The one you'r looking at seems resonabaly priced to me for a private sale, What you'r not paying is higher dealer price to cover the administation.

Chris71 · 03-08-2006, 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by nOw2

No it was very real. On the first car (which to me seemed rather fishy - very low asking price, cluster change, very few bills etc and the guy had only had it for a month), if you lifted the bonnet, the suspension turrets were curved, almost dome shaped. On the second car (the saloon) they were very angular, almost like a box.

AND, I'm very pleased to say the one I'm collecting tonight is the latter, which looks exactly like the pics you've linked to above

Will do an HPI check, although I forgot to make a note of the VIN (and I now know this one looks like they should!!) so I'll just get one of the cheaper ones done. 'My car check' is only a tenner and gives the basic HPI stuff.

So what do you suppose was going on with the other car? Its a blue '180 hatch for sale in Billericay just in case anyones tempted!! It all looked conpspicuously shiny under the bonnet - wonder if it had a front end shunt then had some 45 turrets welded in. It was firmly damped and ZS type pace though. How strange....

XPart02 · 03-08-2006, 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by nOw2

The VIN, if you have access to a database or if there is something in the VIN code that'd tell you.

If it is a genuine ZS 180, then the VIN number will be like this.
SARRT B ( denotes trim class) then a letter for the bodystyle ( either L or W for 4 door or 5 door respectivley), then L ( 2500cc V6 engine ) .
So quickly, starting from the left of the VIN number it will be letters 6 and 8 that are important.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Chris71 · 03-08-2006, 10:01

Right, just got it fully HPI'd (on second thoughts decided I'd go for the full check) all appears to be OK.

Can someone remind me where the VIN and engine numbers are located so I can cross reference them?

nOw2 · 03-08-2006, 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris71

No it was very real. On the first car (which to me seemed rather fishy - very low asking price, cluster change, very few bills etc and the guy had only had it for a month), if you lifted the bonnet, the suspension turrets were curved, almost dome shaped.
...
- wonder if it had a front end shunt then had some 45 turrets welded in. It was firmly damped and ZS type pace though. How strange....

Well, I had a look at my Mk1 hatch and under the bonnet looks exactly like all the other 400/45/ZS pictures: squared off suspention mounts in the inner wings. All MG Rovers based on that chassis use the same inner wings.

The only thing I can think of is that it had a front end smash and the inner wings were replaced with pattern parts. That wouldn't be a problem, as long as you were told up front about it - but I'd walk away in any case!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris71

AND, I'm very pleased to say the one I'm collecting tonight is the latter, which looks exactly like the pics you've linked to above

Good choice :-)

RoverIain · 04-08-2006, 00:13

woohoo mine gets linked!!!!! im happy!!

Chris71 · 04-08-2006, 08:36

Right! Now proudly own a nice silver ZS 180.

Awesome car, but I HATE THAT EXHAUST!

Someones put, a BIG, big bore exhaust on and it sounds horrific unless you're absolutely foot to the floor, the rest of the time its this massive booming humm.

Thats going as soon as I have the chance. Vaguely tempted to put something ever so slightly more aggresive than standard on, but just to bring out the V6 howl, not shatter the neighbours greenhouse

Any ideas? Would also be up for swapping this (apparently mint) stainless sports exhaust for a standard (or near standard one) of equally good condition.

stamford · 04-08-2006, 12:35

Welcome to the ZS180 corner

Is the exhaust that bad?

I have a Janspeed cat-back dual exit and it sounds the dogs danglies! It creates a sound worthy of the V6 and it is how it should be. The standard set up is very quiet and does not do it justice.

Do you know what make the current one is? is it just the rear box or cat-back? You may grow to like it once you hear a standard one.

I'm no boy-racer (other side of 40 btw

) but I believe the 180 should be heard for what it really is!

You're gonna luv it!

RoverIain · 06-08-2006, 22:48

I know mine isnt a 180 but ive got a full stainless on my 420 and i must say it was the best 300 squid ive ever spent.the factory sound is way too quiet,i went for a nice deep burble to it and it sounds perfect,went for a 620 style rear box for the factory look too(just alittle shinier!).I had a Magnex backbox on it before and it just sounded tosh next to the full stainless.

Cirian75 · 07-08-2006, 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris71

Right! Now proudly own a nice silver ZS 180.

Awesome car, but I HATE THAT EXHAUST!

Someones put, a BIG, big bore exhaust on and it sounds horrific unless you're absolutely foot to the floor, the rest of the time its this massive booming humm.

Thats going as soon as I have the chance. Vaguely tempted to put something ever so slightly more aggresive than standard on, but just to bring out the V6 howl, not shatter the neighbours greenhouse

Any ideas? Would also be up for swapping this (apparently mint) stainless sports exhaust for a standard (or near standard one) of equally good condition.

Great news

I'll have to test drive one of those someday..

stamford · 07-08-2006, 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirian75

Great news

I'll have to test drive one of those someday..

Beware! if you do, you will want one! I drove one around Brands Hatch, next thing I know is that I had to get one!

Brad Pitt · 07-08-2006, 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by stamford

Beware! if you do, you will want one! I drove one around Brands Hatch, next thing I know is that I had to get one!

Yeah, I had one for a couple of days and was gutted to give it back.

Awesome bits of kit really, dynamically superb. The handling is sooooo fast but yet sooooo safe. Could make Miss Daisy fly about.

02-08-2006, 17:23	#1
Chris71 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Chelmsford, Essex Car: Mk1 ZS 180 and 216 CRX'06 entrant Posts: 56	Quick question - how can you tell its a genuine ZS and a genuine 180 Hi, I'm probably being paranoid and you all have my permission to mock me if I do buy an MG and return to the forum!! But..... Are there any ways of guaranteeing the car started out as a ZS? Are there any ways of guaranteeing that it started out as a 180, rather than an engine transplant? I know these plumb the depths of paranioa, but pelase humour me. The main reason for asking is this..... I looked at two Mk1 ZS 180's. The first (a hatch) had curvery, almost dome shaped front suspension turrets. The second (a saloon) had boxy, angular ones. I presume this is just a difference between the saloon and the hatch, and I very much doubt someone would bother to clone what is, at the most £6 or 7ks worth of car, but answers on a postcard please.....

02-08-2006, 18:17	#4
patpending MG3 in ? weeks! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Surrey Car: ZS 180 Mk2 FireFrost Hatch Posts: 34,903	These are ways (above) to check for sure. You should probably check the V5 logbook too before carrying out the further checks (assuming it's genuine). One dealer volunteered it for me. If you can, also have a good sniff round one on a kosher dealer's forecourt to see what things like the reargun turrets, I mean suspension turrets, look like. As I recall they are actually clad. I think there was a sort of fake "carpet wall" around them. Learn what the 180 engine looks like. "A sort of big lump which gets hot after a long run" won't be good enough for what you want. Putting a 180 engine into another model will be "a mod too far" for most. Mine is "stealth" in many ways - the bodykit was a favourite factory add-on for other models - the 180 is evidently the ZS people mod theirs to look like(and as we see here 180 bits - spoilers, alloys, sills - are popular for aftermarket add-ons). There is a "180" badge at the back on a Mk1 IIRC - not beyond the wit of man to fake! There is one on the Mk2 below the indicator repeaters (but I don't have it)... In fact, as you are not well-versed in what the car should be like, and you are looking at the cheaper, older end of the range, the extra money you hand over to a reputable dealer should pay you dividends in terms of peace of mind and repair bills. Otherwise, you will be spending what (for anything except cars and houses) is an inordinate sum with no guarantee you are getting value for money! hth __________________ MG. A well fly set of wheels, bro.

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02-08-2006, 18:13	#3
Windy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Car: MG ZS120(2005) ■■■■■□□□□□□ Posts: 9,293	For a quick check, just look for the MG Commission Number label by the drivers door - if its not there then be very suspicious.

02-08-2006, 18:34	#5
stamford Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterlooville Car: MG ZS200, TD5 Discovery, MGF SE 1.8i Wedgewood Posts: 4,859	How far will someone go to clone a ZS? The commission number is a good sign, some people may overlook this plate. Also the whole car would need changing if it were a Rover 45 to start with. The whole interior, seats, door cards, dashboard trims, dash dials. Suspension is somewhat harder than your average. Brakes too. One particular thing would be the colour, how many ZS's share the same colour as Rover 45's? I cannot think of any colours that match come to think of it. Check the vin plate etc to check colour codes do match that of the ZS range.

02-08-2006, 19:33	#6
zedster zs Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: belvedere,kent Car: MG ZS Posts: 216	Chris if you wanna look at a genuine bonofide mint condition mk1 zs them you can have a look at mine, i'm not far from the dartford crossing so could meet you at lakeside if you want. The one you'r looking at seems resonabaly priced to me for a private sale, What you'r not paying is higher dealer price to cover the administation.

03-08-2006, 10:01	#9
Chris71 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Chelmsford, Essex Car: Mk1 ZS 180 and 216 CRX'06 entrant Posts: 56	Right, just got it fully HPI'd (on second thoughts decided I'd go for the full check) all appears to be OK. Can someone remind me where the VIN and engine numbers are located so I can cross reference them?

04-08-2006, 00:13	#11
RoverIain Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: GY Car: Moonstone blue Peugeot 407 x line saloon. Posts: 2,988	woohoo mine gets linked!!!!! im happy!!

04-08-2006, 08:36	#12
Chris71 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Chelmsford, Essex Car: Mk1 ZS 180 and 216 CRX'06 entrant Posts: 56	Right! Now proudly own a nice silver ZS 180. Awesome car, but I HATE THAT EXHAUST! Someones put, a BIG, big bore exhaust on and it sounds horrific unless you're absolutely foot to the floor, the rest of the time its this massive booming humm. Thats going as soon as I have the chance. Vaguely tempted to put something ever so slightly more aggresive than standard on, but just to bring out the V6 howl, not shatter the neighbours greenhouse Any ideas? Would also be up for swapping this (apparently mint) stainless sports exhaust for a standard (or near standard one) of equally good condition.

04-08-2006, 12:35	#13
stamford Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterlooville Car: MG ZS200, TD5 Discovery, MGF SE 1.8i Wedgewood Posts: 4,859	Welcome to the ZS180 corner Is the exhaust that bad? I have a Janspeed cat-back dual exit and it sounds the dogs danglies! It creates a sound worthy of the V6 and it is how it should be. The standard set up is very quiet and does not do it justice. Do you know what make the current one is? is it just the rear box or cat-back? You may grow to like it once you hear a standard one. I'm no boy-racer (other side of 40 btw ) but I believe the 180 should be heard for what it really is! You're gonna luv it!

06-08-2006, 22:48	#14
RoverIain Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: GY Car: Moonstone blue Peugeot 407 x line saloon. Posts: 2,988	I know mine isnt a 180 but ive got a full stainless on my 420 and i must say it was the best 300 squid ive ever spent.the factory sound is way too quiet,i went for a nice deep burble to it and it sounds perfect,went for a 620 style rear box for the factory look too(just alittle shinier!).I had a Magnex backbox on it before and it just sounded tosh next to the full stainless.

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