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Old 14-08-2006, 11:55   #1
The Mad Hat Man
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Land Rover Freelander - V6 head gasket failure

i have a Freelander V6 with suspected HG Failure (bubbling in expansion tank) have taken to local garage who tell me that local Landrover agent (Webbers) suggest they "dont touch it as they (Webbers) will always replace the engine" because "as soon as you remove the heads, the liners move and it is never right again". Having had a HGF two years ago...........

What are your thoughts on this?
Do I replace the complete lump?
Replace the HG's and pray?
Replace the HG's and get shot to some other unfortunate?
Send the engine to an Engine Specialist and have it rebuilt?
Chuck it in the dustbin?
Try changing the lump to a TD4?
Would the '75 V8 be an option?

Any ideas or experts wanting to volunteer?
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Old 14-08-2006, 19:29   #2
1955diesel
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The advice you have been given is rubbish!
The liners can only shift if the engine is rotated with the heads removed. Head gasket replacement on the V6 is quite involved and I would choose someone who has done it before. There are lots of ways of screwing it up.

What exactly are all the symptoms? Gasket failure is fairly uncommon on this engine.
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Old 14-08-2006, 19:39   #3
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The information you have is "very lightly" correct IMO.

The V6 is pretty strong and suffers much less than the K4. Saying this though, a fair few V6's seem to fail in the Land Rovers, where they don't in the Rover and MG applications.

If the engine has been overheated, the liners can move. Upwards into the head and sometimes downwards into the block. If this happens, the engine is scrap.

If the car has been running fine and has started doing this and not been badly overheated, I would attempt a repair.

It is imperitive that when the cylinder heads are removed, attention to detail is paramount. Several checks need to be made to the heads and the liners to make sure everything is good and you are not wasting your time and money putting it back together for it to fail again soon.

Liner checks need to be stand proud, difference between adjacent liners, etc.

You need to find a good mechanic, certainly not necessarily a main dealer.

Engine transplant I can't advise you on as I don't know whether the gearbox, etc is the same. You don't want to put the 1.8 in as that will be from the frying pan into the fire. The diesel lump would be the best bet but my gut feeling, without knowing much about the installation would be that it would be too complex and therefore too costly.

HTH.
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Old 14-08-2006, 19:40   #4
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As above - vigorous bubbling and expansion of liquid in Expansion tank. turn engine off, bubbling stops and fluid level returns to normal(ish) over about 10mins.
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Old 14-08-2006, 19:42   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mad Hat Man
As above - vigorous bubbling and expansion of liquid in Expansion tank. turn engine off, bubbling stops and fluid level returns to normal(ish) over about 10mins.
Compression gas into water jacket. Have you had it tested with the testing kit?

Could be a cracked head through an overheat or perhaps a latent defect in the casting. Probably not though as I have not heard of KV6 cracked heads.

Could always repair it on the cheap and get shot pronto as you said. Got to think of the most economical option cos the V6 is costly when things like this happen.
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Old 14-08-2006, 22:06   #6
1955diesel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mad Hat Man
As above - vigorous bubbling and expansion of liquid in Expansion tank. turn engine off, bubbling stops and fluid level returns to normal(ish) over about 10mins.
Is this with the cap in place? With it removed, you will get bubbling, also if the cap is leaking pressure. Does pressure escape when you "crack" open the cap? (don't remove it when hot!)

Are you loosing coolant? Is cooolant leaking from beneath the cap? If so, try replacing the cap with a new one.

I agree with the previous post about liners sinking into the head or block, but this is due to very bad overheating, not removing the cylinder heads.

Last edited by 1955diesel; 14-08-2006 at 22:12.
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Old 14-08-2006, 22:11   #7
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The Rover 2.5 kv6 is used in the freelander? Which one the early head gasket failing one as in the 800 or the later one as in the 75?
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Old 14-08-2006, 22:14   #8
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The later one. It was in production until the big crash.
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Old 15-08-2006, 05:41   #9
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[quote=Brad Pitt]Compression gas into water jacket. Have you had it tested with the testing kit?
quote]

Sorry guys - yes has been tested and compression gasses found in water, so it looks definately like an HGF! Coolant IS leaking from around cap - so maybe 2 problems. Will try and get pressure tested, but how is this done with cap in place?
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Old 15-08-2006, 06:35   #10
1955diesel
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Very often they dont have the cap in place so doesn't get checked.

The simplest thing to do is replace the cap. It only costs a few pounds and will rule this possibility out.

If you have had a sniff test done on the coolant and is was positive, it doesn't sound too good, but I would not give up looking for other causes yet.
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Old 22-08-2006, 10:51   #11
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like a possible air lock for example...............
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Old 22-08-2006, 11:01   #12
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Having removed engine to do HG, (apparently its quicker and cheaper) Garage have now discovered its Thermostat and housing etc peeing coolant into "V"!.

Having "healthy discussion" with warranty company - warrantyworks....
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Old 22-08-2006, 11:06   #13
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But the garage had found compression gas in the coolant and also it was pressurising the water jacket and boiling the water was it not?

Thermostat housing problems are getting very common on KV6. Had you said you were loosing coolant as a problem, most people who know the engine would have suggested this be the first place you look.

HTH.
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Old 22-08-2006, 11:38   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Pitt
But the garage had found compression gas in the coolant and also it was pressurising the water jacket and boiling the water was it not?

Thermostat housing problems are getting very common on KV6. Had you said you were loosing coolant as a problem, most people who know the engine would have suggested this be the first place you look.

HTH.
apparently the "gas" could have been air.... so now I aint sure wtf the prob is - I just got a Freebie in bits at a garage takin up one of their ramps and a "warranty" company that aint interested....

I wanna cry!
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Old 22-08-2006, 11:42   #15
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To me it sounds like your cars in the hands of a bunch of complete ******* morons.

If they think compression gasses are are, and then change their mind, and then don't know, they are complete idiots.

Come down like a **** ton of bricks on the warrenty company and get them to move their ass, also get your car + all of that engine away from that garage and to somebody who might have a clue what they are doing.

Freaking monkies...
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Old 14-09-2006, 08:37   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mad Hat Man View Post
Having removed engine to do HG, (apparently its quicker and cheaper) Garage have now discovered its Thermostat and housing etc peeing coolant into "V"!.

Having "healthy discussion" with warranty company - warrantyworks....
just wanna say Hi as promised
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Old 14-09-2006, 09:01   #17
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Hi Dearot

just to save me typing in tons of stuff twice - heres the link to the Freelander site where it is being discussed further....

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/v6-...e-33223-8.html

also being discussed is alternative water cooling systems as the one designed by LR? is a nightmare, as it cools the engine block, engine oil, gearbox oil and IRD. Or at least tries to unsuccessfully
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Old 14-09-2006, 12:52   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mad Hat Man View Post
Hi Dearot

just to save me typing in tons of stuff twice - heres the link to the Freelander site where it is being discussed further....

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/v6-...e-33223-8.html

also being discussed is alternative water cooling systems as the one designed by LR? is a nightmare, as it cools the engine block, engine oil, gearbox oil and IRD. Or at least tries to unsuccessfully

Good to see you're spreading your wings Mad Hat Man and Dearot on to the MGR forum, Recognise those names LOL.

Some top advice from 1955diesel and Brad.

Have you got a workshop manual for the KV6, that should give you tolerances for the engine block and head. Im sure a good engineering company could skim the heads if required. The only way of knowing is by examining the head from the block with straight edge and guages.

Owning a Freelander with the 1.8 which had recent HGF. all sorted now.

I noticed it when I got the bubbling/gurgling noise coming from the heater matrix when cold starts. First thought it was just an air lock. so bled system from valve at matrix outlet, topped up coolant and soon after (few weeks) that noticed the oil in the coolant. I imagine that the heater matrix in the freelander is the same for the K4 and KV6. The problem with the heater hoses to IRD on the Freelander is that they just run at right angles from the main pipes. Not a very efficient fluid flow/dynamics, not to mention stat in wrong position which the guys on here MGR are well aware.

I know your LR is up on ramps but can you not retrieve the vehicle for your own inspection or independent garage to examine

Last edited by D.R.; 14-09-2006 at 13:01.
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Old 14-09-2006, 13:14   #19
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sorry should also have added that when I was doing the work on the K4 I decided to check the stat opening temp. Horrified when it didnt open until 95oC, repeated this several times with same results. Although normal temp range of coolant when I was last driving the Freelander before the repair.

New stats open at 88oC, not sure of the spec on the KV6 stat should be the same.

Worth looking at, as the engine had only 55k mileage
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Old 14-09-2006, 15:14   #20
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Thanks DR.
have found info for KV6 liner protrusion (4-5thou) used to be 0-5 thou. depending on results is whether I am more inclined to keep or get shot. As I aint having it changed. Heads already skimmed and checked for porosity.

Stat taken out of KV6 was marked as 86C

Last edited by The Mad Hat Man; 20-09-2006 at 08:04.
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