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Old 09-02-2007, 09:11   #1
paul.keen
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Rover coupe 1.8VVC 1997 HGF???

I have owned my Coupe for nearly two years now. have changed the head gasket more times than care to remember.

1st time the VVC unit went all wonky donkey and the belt jumped a bit, deep joy, nice little xmas present.

2nd time the car was weeping water which then mixed into oil so although car was showing no adverse signs i duely changed the HG (old rubber type) and you could see ti had gone.

Now fairly bored of changing Head gaskets i got the all new, all singing, all dancing Land Rover HG. Bullet proof i'm thinking....

3rd HGF for which i will have to share blame with my dad. we may have not tightened the cam belt tentioner up after re-fitting it, so it only lasted about 300miles from HGF number 2.

So here i am, serveral thousand miles after my second bullet proof land rover gasket is installed and i have concerns.

The water levels were dropping ever so slightly so i was just topping the header tank from time to time. I also noticed at this point that the top radiator hose would be very hot and the bottom one cold. although the bottom one would heat after a long time.

i then had a pin hole leak (top rad hose right by the head) that gave the engine bay a good spray but was fixed by chopping of about an inch or two of pipe (not sure was a text book fix but it did the job).

Naturally i have since taken a big interest in the heating system. I noticed it was under alot of presure and always seams to get very hot (can barely touch top rad hose) before the system circulates and teh bototm pipe gets hot.

No mayo in oil cap. no gunk in water but there does seam to be steam in exhaust output.

am i being paranoid that its another HGF, or is this how its supposed to work? I am going to investigate the thermostat this weekend but wanted to have some thoughts from you guys.

Thanks

Paul
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Old 09-02-2007, 09:34   #2
Cirian75
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If its been going with the LR gasket properly fitted, your liners have possibly sunk.

that means no gasket could ever fix it, that could mean the engine from the top on the cylinder block will be scrap.

It could just be an airlock though.
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Old 09-02-2007, 09:52   #3
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Ask a stupid question. get a stupid answer i expect, but how would i tell if they have sunk?
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Old 09-02-2007, 09:53   #4
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3 HGF..you poor sod! Bet you a dab hand at changing them now though lol

Seriously, the first thing that jumped to mind was the thermostat. Daft question but did it ever over heat? Have you had a compression test and also if the head needed skimming?

That aside, the steam this time of the year is pretty natural and like cirian says, it might not be anything more than an airlock. I have heard that the whole bleeding attempts can take more than just the one attempt, also the flushing of the cooling system. There still might be crud from the last two HGF.

Perhaps before you go writing the current gasket off, it might be worth doing a few more flushes, changing the thermostat and bleeding it again (Couple of times)

I know when anything ever goes on my car, I am then more aware of them going again and as such you can drive paranoid for thousands of miles before you trust them again.

The simplest way perhaps is get a compression test and if you have funds or a friendly garage a sniffer test. That would ultimately put your mind at rest and narrow what it could be down.

Let us know how you get on.. I was going to also say, that hose you cut, I would go and buy a new one.

Good luck buddy.

Sean
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Old 09-02-2007, 09:59   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul.keen View Post
Ask a stupid question. get a stupid answer i expect, but how would i tell if they have sunk?
when you have the head off, they should stand ever so slighty proud of the block face, we're talking a few thous here.

has it needed skiming at all ?
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Old 09-02-2007, 10:06   #6
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I will add that the car runs very well. starts at the flick of the key. loads of power as expected. Occasionally when idling the revs will dip then recover on their own accord (possibly down to needing new gaskets on the inlet side of things, which i now have)
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Old 09-02-2007, 10:08   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cirian75 View Post
when you have the head off, they should stand ever so slighty proud of the block face, we're talking a few thous here.

has it needed skiming at all ?
last time it was off they were proud, yes it has been skimmed and now has a shim head saver doobery ferkin in it.

Would they have sunk since re-build?
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Old 09-02-2007, 10:31   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aufo8mycow View Post
3 HGF..you poor sod! Bet you a dab hand at changing them now though lol

Seriously, the first thing that jumped to mind was the thermostat. Daft question but did it ever over heat? Have you had a compression test and also if the head needed skimming?

That aside, the steam this time of the year is pretty natural and like cirian says, it might not be anything more than an airlock. I have heard that the whole bleeding attempts can take more than just the one attempt, also the flushing of the cooling system. There still might be crud from the last two HGF.

Perhaps before you go writing the current gasket off, it might be worth doing a few more flushes, changing the thermostat and bleeding it again (Couple of times)

I know when anything ever goes on my car, I am then more aware of them going again and as such you can drive paranoid for thousands of miles before you trust them again.

The simplest way perhaps is get a compression test and if you have funds or a friendly garage a sniffer test. That would ultimately put your mind at rest and narrow what it could be down.

Let us know how you get on.. I was going to also say, that hose you cut, I would go and buy a new one.

Good luck buddy.

Sean
Because of my dads constant paranoid approach to life I am a regular checker of the car, so it didnt over heat, just kinda leaked a bit and we were straight in.

I get good compression on all cylinders.

I agree about this time of year the steam in exhaust isnt too uncommon, but you just start to wonder.

I need to take all the inlet side to pieces and apply the new gaskets i have this weekend, so i will check the thermostat out then as well.

I will change the hose in due course, but its shuffled down the list of things to do. Probably on a par with my drivers inside door handle needing re-connecting

The prospect of another HGF is a bit worse than number 4 as my brother followed me and bought a 416 which has had its fair share of HGF. I would like to say i can do them in my sleep, but its more like my nightmares. I am however running out of Rover faults that cause HGF so maybe, just maybe things will change.
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Old 09-02-2007, 10:45   #9
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only excessive overheating causes then to sink.
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Old 09-02-2007, 11:00   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cirian75 View Post
only excessive overheating causes then to sink.
Should be ok then. I will have a look tonight/this weekend and see whats what with the thermostat etc...

Hopefully i was getting over excited for no reason
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Old 09-02-2007, 11:33   #11
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When I fitted an engine from an MGF to my old VVC coupe (not trough HGF, it threw a rod) I had a right job getting an airlock out and changed the stat at the same time, which wasnt the easiest one to access if I remember correctly. But I would fit a new stat and bleed the systm a few times to be sure. I also found that when a new rad was fitted it seem to run a lot cooler (but mine was goosed).
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Old 09-02-2007, 11:51   #12
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Forgot to say, have you had a look at the expansion cap on the bottle, these sometimes fail and leak water.. might be worth getting a new one they are pretty cheap few squid and might explain the loss of water.. worth a go

Sean
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Old 18-02-2007, 23:16   #13
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latest news

thermostat appears to be ok. tested it and it opens at right temp etc...

changed head gasket. checked liners hadnt sunk.( well they were still a little bit proud of the rest of engine)

still getting pressure in the water.... now a bit confused and tired!

Any more ideas? obviously open to idea head gasket hasnt been re-fitted properly but i am fairly sure its all good.

there was no water in oil or oil in water. so its just air getting into water. could it be an air lock? only so many times i can squeeze those bloody pipes though lol!
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Old 18-02-2007, 23:58   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aufo8mycow View Post
Forgot to say, have you had a look at the expansion cap on the bottle, these sometimes fail and leak water.. might be worth getting a new one they are pretty cheap few squid and might explain the loss of water.. worth a go

Sean
HRC606 from Halfords if its the same as the F one. I bought one earlier today as mines started to leak. 2.99
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Old 19-02-2007, 00:42   #15
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Well I guess see how it goes. Out of interest have you replaced the Head Bolts? Just with the amount of times you have taken it off..replaced..taken it off. Could it be possible you have inadvertently stretched them? Did you measure them before you refitted and where they within limits?

Just an idea. Although now you done it, it might be fine I have everything crossed for you

Sean
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Old 19-02-2007, 10:28   #16
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Yes i did replace the head bolts the last time it went. but not this time. I did meassure them and they were within tollerances.

Before i took it apart cylinder 2 (working from left to right) had lower pressure around 10. where as the other cyclinders were 12-13. But the car ran really well until it warm when there would be the odd stutter.

its not running well at all now, but I havent looked into it at all.

Am going to test the compression tonight and see whats what.

i will have a really good go at bleeding all the cooling system but i dont think its an air lock. could the air be coming from anywhere other than the head gasket leaking and allowing exhaust gas into the water?
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Old 20-02-2007, 19:31   #17
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compression tested all cylinders, all coming up 12

got a new cap as mine was worrying me.

turned on engine, in a very short time the top hose goes hard. The bottom hose gets hard as well but not as quickly.

i know the coolent needs to be under pressure to reduce boiling but how fast does this pressure occur and how hard should i expect it to get?

hard to say exactly how hard it is.

My brother has a 416si N reg, will his water pressure be the same as my coupe or might it not react the same. I am guessing it cant be too disimular.
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