Engine Removal

[CJJ]

Last weekend I started the process of dropping the engine and subframe out so that I could do the timing belts, fit a new HG and AP racing clutch etc etc.

First thing I did was remove the rear bumper: http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=288282

Once this was done I could remove the exhaust finshers, backbox and cat. This shows some of the steps: http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=228313

Once the exhaust was out I could get access to the heat shield under the boot. The 10mm bolts were well rusted and I ended up having to drill one of the bolts out.




The next step was to disconnect as many physical connections between the engine/subframe and the body. This was just done by looking around and seeing what connections there are.

This was the order I did it in, but I don't really think the order is important.

I disconnected the coolant pipe that connects to the expansion tank, via the T-piece. It might be an idea to label these connections if you aren't sure where they go.




The fuel connections were next. These simply come apart by pressing in the black ring at the end of the connector and pulling it away from the pipe. Be careful to ensure that the ignition is not turned on as the line will be pressurised. You will lose a bit of petrol anyway, so be prepared.




There is also the fuel return line below the feed. It is a green connector, but works in the same way as the red feed connector.




You will lose a lot of fuel from this one, so have a way of blanking it off. I had some spare tube of the right size, some bolts and some double sided sticky tape.



The throttle cable and vacuum pipe to the evap canister were next. The vacuum pipe simply pulls off (1). If you unclip the adjuster from the bracket and open the throttle body fully by hand you can unloop and then unclip the cable (2).



I then disconnected the tube from the airbox to the throttle body. I also removed the airbox to give a bit more room.



Oooh, blurry.

The vacuum tube that supplies the brakes was removed from the inlet manifold next. Press in the red plastic ring while pulling the tube (it says black on the pic, oops).



Another vacuum connection that needs to be disconnected is the supply to the Emmisions valve on the offside exhaust.



Before removing the engine we also need to drain the coolant.

The best place to do this is at the front end of the underfloor coolant pipes. Remove the clips by pressing the ends together and sliding them along the pipe away from the connection. The rubber hose will be stuck on the metal pipe after years of sitting in place. I loosened them by gripping them with mole grips, or similar, and turning until the seal is broken.



Rather than pulling the hose straight off and getting soaked I slid a screwdriver down the inside of the hose to create a small bleed.

Looks like I hit an artery though.



Now just leave that to drain. Check once in a while to make sure that the container doesn't overflow.

Be careful as it is easy to get the coolant in your eyes. Obviously I didn't, being the professional that I is. I said I didn't, right. And it stings, er, or so I heard somewhere.

You can aid the draining by opening the bleed points.

There is one at the top nearside of the radiator. Be very careful when opening this one as it is only plastic and often shears off. If it does shear off then one of the ways to remove the remaining threaded portion is to heat up a screwdriver end to F hot and melt it into the plastic bolt, let it cool and screw it out.



While you are under the bonnet, remove the plastic cover on the bulkhead and you will see another bleed point for the heater matrix. Make sure that you have the heater set to hot to allow the coolant to drain.



And one in the engine compartment, above the starter motor.



While the coolant is draining I decided to disconnect the rear brakes.

To disconnect the handbrake cables from the rear brakes you need to remove the R clip from the pin and then remove it. The pin holds the cable end to the brake. It has been on there a while and will not give up easily. Soak in plenty of easing oil (be careful not to get on brakes) and apply pressure from behind to foce it out. I put a large nut over the head and put molegrips over it. I didn't take a picture, but I can explain in detail if ever anyone needs me to.



The cable is held into a bracket by a large square clip. This can be levered, or forced off with a screwdriver. The cable can then be removed and left to hang loose.

Next comes the hydraulic hoses.

I started by clamping the hoses to minimise brake fluid loss, and then undid and removed the banjo bolts.



Once the hoses are removed replace the bolts to keep the dirt out of the brake system and tie the hoses out of harms way.

While we are under the car, the gear linkages need to be disconnected.

There are 2 of them. One is connected to a cable that comes from under the car, and the other comes from over the top of the engine and around the back.



The cables are held in place by large square clips. These can be forced off with a chisel or screwdriver by knocking them downwards.



The connectors can just be levered off with a screwdriver. It might take 2 though, one each side of the linkage.



Once the connectors are removed the cables can be slid back (might need gentle persuation) until the narrow point of the cable lines up with the cutout. The cable can then be removed.



The cables now hang loose. Keep an eye on them when dropping the subframe, or tie them out of the way so that they don't get crushed.

Next we will tackle some of the electrical connections.

First thing to do would be to disconnect the battery. Make sure you have unlocked the doors and know your radio code etc.

I just disconnect the negative lead, but if you want to disconnect the pos then feel free, but NEVER disconnect the pos without disconnecting the neg first.



Ooh, think those lugs need a bit of Vaseline on them. That's the only reason I have it, honest.

Once that is done, we can start disconnecting.

First comes the starter motor. It is just below where the airbox used to be.



The meter is there as I have a habit of checking that all electrical connections are dead before working on them. I know I disconnected the battery, but it is an electrician thing.

[CJJ]

The connection that you want is on the solenoid.



Once disconnected, you can remove the clip holding the main cable from the battery and pull it down from the engine compartment out of the way. I also wrapped the connector up so that it cannot short against the chassis if you reconnect the battery later.



Next, unclip the 80Amp fuse holder from the rear of the engine compartment (MGFs might not have this).



There is also the engine to chassis connection which is connected to the chassis just under where the fuse was.



Before turning our attention to the magic box that is the ECU, there is a connection at the top of the evap cannister. Just pull the connector until it releases.



Now to the ECU

The two main multiplugs need to be removed from the ECU itself. Never do this with the battery connected as you could damage the ECU.

First pull up the retaining clip on the top connector (The bottom connector clip needs to be pulled down). The main connector will now unplug. Do the same for the larger lower plug.



There are also 2 main connectors behind the bracket that holds the ECU in place. You can just see them in the shot above.

You will need to remove the bracket to get access (unles you have the hands of a child).

Once the bracket is removed, unclip the connecors from the bracket and pull them apart while pressing the clip that locks them together.



Well, the weather wasn't too bad today (Monday 9/3/09) so I did a few more jobs.

First off I installed a new paving stone.



A strange addition to this how to, but it's worth mentioning to people with these modern drives. You need the stability. Using jacks and axle stands on stones etc is not recommended.

As I am going to be removing the coolant pipes to fit the new stainless pipes, I needed to take the belly pan off. This isn't necessary for removing the engine.



Remove the 22 bolts and remove the belly pan. Keep the bolts somewhere safe.



Snip the tie wraps that secure the starter motor cable to the coolant pipe brackets



and coil the cable out of the way. Make sure that the crimp is nowhere near any bodywork.



Unclip the rear coolant hoses from the pipes



and remove them. A fair bit of coolant will come out.



Now, unbolt the 3 10mm bolts and remove the pipes.



These are the removed pipes alongside the new stainless steel ones. They were £68.05 + £9.95 P&P from Sussex Classic Car Parts.



They seem to be exact copies and I was even surprised that they had new tie wraps fitted.



The underfloor area where the pipes were is cleaner than I thought it would be. I will be waxoiling it before fitting the new pipes.



That leaves the clutch slave cylinder supply. I was going to disconnect at the slave cylinder after clamping the hose, but I realised that the fittings on the chassis stuck out quite a way and would probably foul the subframe when it is dropped.



I decided to disconnect at the chassis and allow the fluid to drain. Will just have to bleed it when reconnected.

So, now that all of the connections have been disconnected, we can start on the woodwork lessons.

I bought 2 substantial lengths of timber



and cut one just short of the width of the car body.



I then offered the timber up to the underside of the car and marked any changes in level and any obstructions such as pipes, sills etc. Then it was time to get the router out.



After a couple of trial fits and adjustments the timber was ready.



I then screwed the second length of timber to the first and cut it to length.

It was then fitted underneath to check that there was no fouling and supported with axle stands.



This is where I will be jacking the rear of the car up to give enough clearance to remove the engine and subframe.

Well, that's the story so far.

I will be giving it a good look over for any other connections.

If anyone knows of anything that I have forgotten, now would be a good time to speak up.

Next job is undoing the subframe from the body and jacking the body up.

I will add to this when I have progressed, probably Friday before I get time.

[simon-g]

Well done, best of luck with it

[MGF HEAVEN]

Well done CJJ,very informative ( as always ).

Handbrake cables,earth strap from the front,held on by a 13mm bolt to the subframe. ( I may have missed the pics to these ).

Which vvc engine do you have, Bhp?

Steve

[designad]

Erm CJ...forgive what is probably a stupid question, but couldn;t you do all of that work without removing the engine? Seems like a hell of a job!


But a ripper of a How To as always!

[CJJ]

Originally Posted by vvc steve

Well done CJJ,very informative ( as always ).

Handbrake cables,earth strap from the front,held on by a 13mm bolt to the subframe. ( I may have missed the pics to these ).

Which vvc engine do you have, Bhp?

Steve

If the strap is to the subframe hen it doesn't matter as the whole engine and subframe are coming out as one.

The engine is a TF160 engine which is now pushing out 175bhp.

Originally Posted by designad

Erm CJ...forgive what is probably a stupid question, but couldn;t you do all of that work without removing the engine? Seems like a hell of a job!


But a ripper of a How To as always!

Why do it the easy way?

The amount of jobs that I have to do make this way easier. I also have to modify the bulkhead while I am in there.

[smokie999]

another great thread cjj

[happychappy#1]

Well done. a very interesting sequence of pics.

A quick question, will you be attending to the rust? I must be honest and say that I have never ever seen rust around a battery terminal before!

[CJJ]

Originally Posted by happychappy#1

Well done. a very interesting sequence of pics.

A quick question, will you be attending to the rust? I must be honest and say that I have never ever seen rust around a battery terminal before!

Yep, have waxoil to hand.

The rust is off the bolt that secures the clamp. Will be fitting stainless and a dollop of Vaseline.

[happychappy#1]

Originally Posted by CJJ

Yep, have waxoil to hand.

Good to hear it!

Originally Posted by CJJ

The rust is off the bolt that secures the clamp. Will be fitting stainless and a dollop of Vaseline.

Stable door and horse bolted come to mind.

Good luck with keeping your hands in one piece, I can see this job being a real knuckle smacker.

[AutomanUK]

As with all your guides fantastic clear pics for future reference. I especially like the little tips like melting a screwdriver into the radiator bleed screw if it shears...excellent as always.

[CJJ]

Originally Posted by happychappy#1

Stable door and horse bolted come to mind.

Good luck with keeping your hands in one piece, I can see this job being a real knuckle smacker.

I did grease them when I did the servicing, but it obviously needs better grease.

As for the knuckles, I am hoping the removal of the engine will actually save my knuckles as I won't have to perform keyhole surgery.

[Petevick]

excelled yourself here CJJ

being a bit cheeky, but once the engine is out, could you take a photo showing the n/s compliance bush looking down at it pretty please

[CJJ]

Originally Posted by Petevick

excelled yourself here CJJ

being a bit cheeky, but once the engine is out, could you take a photo showing the n/s compliance bush looking down at it pretty please

I will be taking plenty of pics, especially the parts you don't see when the engine is in the way. I will make a note.

If anyone else wants pics of anything, let me know.

[MGFmad]

Good thread CJJ, looking forward to the progress reports.

[Broon]

Thanks once again CJJ. This could come in very handy in the future.

I dont know how you cna be assed. I have done nearly everything to my F, but after the first 10 mins of enthusiastic photo taking, I start to get engrossed in the job (or sore and oily) and start taking less and less pics. You seem to manage to kepe taking them..and for that ..I salute you.

[Reaper]

Brilliant looking forward to the next bit!!

Originally Posted by vvc steve

Well done CJJ,very informative ( as always ).

Handbrake cables,earth strap from the front,held on by a 13mm bolt to the subframe. ( I may have missed the pics to these ).

Which vvc engine do you have, Bhp?

Steve

Originally Posted by CJJ

The engine is a TF160 engine which is now pushing out 175bhp.

I think the reason it was mentioned which engine you have is that the above manifold was for the MGF VVC 143bhp. Have you re used the picture from somewehere else? Because i thought thou's inlets used a different sensor shape setup used in the mems 2....

[simon-g]

Originally Posted by Reaper

Brilliant looking forward to the next bit!!


I think the reason it was mentioned which engine you have is that the above manifold was for the MGF VVC 143bhp. Have you re used the picture from somewehere else? Because i thought thou's inlets used a different sensor shape setup used in the mems 2....

Yes the MAP sensor, but can be modified to fit.

[Kev414]

3rd picture - fuel feed connector - what are they called?

part No?

Is it a 10 mm pipe they connect onto?

thanks in advance and sorry for hi-jack.

[CJJ]

Are you talking about the metal pipe from the fuel filter? http://www.mgfcar.de/epc/5848.htm

Or the flexible pipe with the quick release connector on?
http://www.mgfcar.de/epc/5892.htm

Not sure on sizes. Let me know which pipe you are wanting and I will try to measure it for you.