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Old 15-03-2009, 17:13   #1
JONNYVINYL
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45 Diesel Cut out and Wont Start

Hi Everyone!!

Need some advice with my 45 l series. Had lumpy idle, replaced all injectors, problem cured. Did about 1000 miles and one day, car cut out when driving. No warning, no missing, just died.

Firstly checked timing belts both ends, ok. Injectors getting fuel but pressure does not look great. Checked all lives to ecu and earths, and to fuel pump ecu. Checked red wire from fuel pump to ecu, which i believe operates fuel quantity solenoid. Plugged in scanner, and got following codes (though most of them i believe were caused by me unpluging things to test)

P1222 Timing governer BATT Deviation
P0216 Timing device position governing
P0113 Air temp sensor above upper limit
P0102 Airflow sensor Below lower limit
P1218 Needle lift sensor voltage high
P1688 Fuel pump ecu com error
P1251 Fuel quantity valve solenoid error
P0251 Fuel pump control unit.

Well i was able to replicate the MAF faults and also the fuel pump com and fuel pump control faults by unplugging them. the remaining codes are what i nebelieve could be at fault - Timing device and fuel quantity. I have been unable to replicate these codes by unplugging or cranking, so assume they were set before i started. Also, needle lift fault seems odd, could be from long time ago, though i had no check engine light on - - it only seems to operate for certain faults though....

Any ideas people? Im thinkin i probably need a pump, but i want to be sure before i go buying one!!!

Thanks All!!

Jonny
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Old 15-03-2009, 19:15   #2
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Quote:
Injectors getting fuel but pressure does not look great.
screams 'faulty pump' to me, unfortunately.
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Old 15-03-2009, 20:59   #3
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Nothing as simple as a faulty brake light??? I remember reading of a chap with fuelling issue, turned out to be caused by having a blown brake lightbulb - causing the ECU to belive the brake was applied, thus cutting the fuel supply...

Just a thought...
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Old 15-03-2009, 21:06   #4
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I wouldn't expect those codes if that were the case.

Timing solenoid is a 'failrly' common failure, but by the looks of it, the pumps suffered a bit more extremely.

Try lightly tapping the top of the pump, and pouring a trickle of cold water over it (watch the connectors), then try starting it.
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Old 15-03-2009, 21:32   #5
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i can understand tapping it but hows the water help?
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Old 15-03-2009, 21:53   #6
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I don't expect it to help in all honestly.

However a surprising, yet common fault with pumps with their own integral ecu's, usually affecting those that do short journeys is that heat cycling tends to glaze the pcb, and when warm can lead to a loss of contacts.

I know it sounds far-fetched, but it's not actually that long ago we had a lad with a vp30 which wouldn't start at all from warm until you chilled it with a hosepipe.
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Old 15-03-2009, 22:31   #7
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listening and learning always!

logged in my mind for possible future use.

Cheers Mark.
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Old 15-03-2009, 22:36   #8
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After doing a bit of research , same also applies with the mechanical pump head. Tired and worn pumps increase clearances and thermal expansion in conjunction with this can cause a loss of injection pressure.

Just thought i'd add that.
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Old 26-03-2009, 16:06   #9
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The Solution!!

Thanks all for your input - turned out no matter what i tried i could not get the thing to fire again. In the end checked everything i could possibly check, then went for the fuel pump. Bought a brand new one off a well known auction site for less than i could get a recon one from here ( i decided with the number of faults showing on my original pump, a full recon would be the best option.)

Recon units seem to be more reasonable in the mainland, but i hadnt time to return my old one for exchange.

The new pump came with the centre part of the pulley fitted (so timing was pre - set - apparently they no longer use the pinch bolt technique to lock the pump timing). It fitted straight on and did not require programming. After bleeding, the engine fired and now runs smoother than ever.

Incidentally, i also fitted a new No 4 glow plug while i had the pump off, cleaned out the inlet manifold duct, and fitted new timing belts. Thats all shes gettin for a while, so she better behave!! LOL

If anyone has the need to remove one of these pumps, dont follow the instructions in the 200 haynes manual. It goes though the proceedure of locking the fuel pump shaft with the grub screw and removing the entire pulley assembly with the centre shaft nut. as the shaft is tapered without a key, the timing could be lost. much simpler just to remove the 3 torx screws and the outer part of the pulley! I really should have used my head more and the manual less lol.

Thanks again everyone!!!

Jonny
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Old 26-03-2009, 16:15   #10
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Unfortunately I was right then

Pumps don't fail often, you should be okay now.
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Old 26-03-2009, 16:41   #11
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200 pump and pulley is differnent from the 45 ones, hence the different removal techniques you can use.
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Old 26-03-2009, 22:39   #12
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Ah i see. The pump i had on my 45 had the locking screw on it, but also had the 3 torx. Perhaps someone had changed the pulley in the past, or bosch made some like this in the past? Anyhow, my new pump came with no locking screw, so i assume this tequnique has been withdrawn.

Worth checking anyway. Perhaps if i had bought an actual 45 manual it would have made more sense lol.

Jonny
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Old 17-04-2009, 15:25   #13
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Hi
Can anyone help with what may, or may not be a similar problem to above although the fault codes are different?

My Rover 45 IE Turbo Diesel cut out and will not start. It had a similar problem 6 months ago which seemed to be cured by a replacement fuel pump . The garage do not have a lot of expereince of electrical faults on Rovers but have provided the following diaganosis codes:
P1688
P0251
P1402
P1215
P0112
P0102

They say it points to the EDC on the Fuel pump which means I need to fork out for another pump ? Or it could be the ECU they say. Can anybody help with the diagnosis?
Much appreciated
Keith
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Old 17-04-2009, 15:54   #14
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I'd start by looking at the wiring. The codes are too varied to scream 'pump failure'.

Amongst that you have maf and egr signal errors (assuming my list is right!) so i think somethings screwing with the electrics...


and we all know what the likely culprit is
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Old 17-04-2009, 16:03   #15
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Thanks for speedy response Dakta ! Excuse my ignorance but what is the 'likely culprit'
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Old 17-04-2009, 16:05   #16
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the wiring - sounds like somethings chafed. If your fault codes were all pump related (say timing and metering solenoid deviances etc) id say look at the pump, but as these seem to be all over the place, i'd start inspecting the main engine loom and pump connector

good luck!
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Old 19-04-2009, 14:39   #17
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Hi Keith,

Afraid i found it quite difficult to find anyone who could tell me much about these cars here in NI, most seem to use a trial and error approach to such repairs. I have never managed to find a definitive test for the pump, or a way o repair them. Have my old one though, i may dismantle it. As my fuel pressure was down, i belive the quantity solenoid may have been by-passing. i was determined that i was going to repair my own anyway. I agree that its likely a wiring fault - fuel pump failure seems mostly to be accompanied with faults such as fuel timing device failure and quantity solenoid failure. My guess is either yor garage has unplugged things to test, or a common electrical fault is in effect.

The fuel pump communications error p1688 - this can be set by turning the engine over with the fuel pump unplugged - so either this has happened during testing, or you have no supply to your fuel pump. You can check for a supply to this, i can give you details on wires/voltages if you want. The Maf code P0102 can also be set by turning the engine over with this disconnected.

I also read about chafing of wires to the ecu, probably along the battery tray, i would start at the ecu and check wires as far as you can.

because your fault codes are so wide ranging, it could be that the fault is related to something that is common to more that one component. I would be checking all your earths. many components earth through the ecu, and again there are tests to check these. some are rather fiddly though, owing to the small pin size of the ecu multiplug.
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Old 20-04-2009, 08:49   #18
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Thanks Jonny . Please do send details of wires and voltages. I plan to spend this afternoon at the garage with my multimeter. I noted from Haynes that the E2 earth point seems to be common to many parts of the fuel sytem so will start there.
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Old 20-04-2009, 10:16   #19
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Please can anyone tell me what Fault codes P1402 and P1215 mean ?
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Old 20-04-2009, 11:01   #20
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p1402 - exhaust gas recirculation system - excessive flow detected
p1215 - fuel shut off solenoid - circuit malfunction
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