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Old 25-01-2011, 14:07   #1
gorgh
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Can inlet manifold gasket cause water leak??

Hi,

I have a question for you who might know for sure, can inlet manifold gasket cause coolant water leak?


My car (ZR 160 2002 year make) had 2nd HGF fix, and i got back the car from mechanic who replaced head, vvc mech and all other gaskets on friday and today i noticed again some water collected on the same place as both times.

The water starts to "collect" on the left side (if you are standing in front of car and looking to engine bay)of engine where the head "joins" on the engine just under left side of exhaust pipes.

I spoke to him and he said he did not replace the inlet manifold gasket (that elastic or rubber thing with holes) http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MGZR-MGZS-MGZT...item1e5770738a

Can this be the issue in my case or is the problem somewhere else...what to look for? I am desperate, dont want to get rid of the car though because i love it, but on the other hand...i dont have any much more money to afford these expensive "fixes"....

If so...is this another head gasket change alike work or is it done easier and faster??

thanx for response,
Jure
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Old 25-01-2011, 14:19   #2
1955diesel
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The inlet manifold gasket covers two water ways in the head so can cause both external leaks and also leaks directly into the intake ports. This is mainly a problem with the plastic manifold / rubber gasket engines and tends not to affect VVC.

Water from between head and block in the exhaust manifold area sounds a lot like the head gasket I'm afraid. Although it is possible for the inlet manifold to leak and the water then run round to the front. There have been a lot of reports of new MLS gaskets leaking in this way when fitted. They tend to be the unknown brand type rather than genuine parts.
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Old 25-01-2011, 17:26   #3
gorgh
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darn!!!!!!!!!!!??? :S

And i have made only 400km's from replacement...

Is there any way to test to find the exact spot of leak? :/

So from what you've written...i should count the inlet manifold gasket leak out or not?
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Old 25-01-2011, 17:32   #4
1955diesel
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If it is from the inlet manifold it will be wet around the back under the gasket.

If it turns out to be the head gasket, it may be one of the few occasions where the use of K-Seal or similar is justified, but I expect to get flamed for saying that. The fact is that with relatively new components it stands a good chance of working and remaining good for some time. It is different to using it for a rusty radiator or disintegrating gasket.
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Old 26-01-2011, 06:32   #5
gorgh
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Ah ok, maybe i'll give it a shot with k-seal.....is this K-seal the one to use (made for K-Series engine or what?), or can i use any product alike that "fills" holes in the system?

Is there any way that it's leaking around the thermostate?
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Old 26-01-2011, 08:02   #6
Sejin26
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It could be a small leak from the stat. But it would be a more major leak.

K seal is no relation to the K series engine. Its just a name of the product. There is many products that do the same job. Some cheaper and some more expensive. I myself have used K-Seal and Holts WounderWeld to good effect on customers cars when they wanted a cheap fix.

I have told them it might work or might not as nobody knows for sure. But I have had good results with both. NON are a PERMINANT repair mind.
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Old 26-01-2011, 10:48   #7
Fast Alan
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I advised against these products but have been made to eat my words,recently Ive seen another members BRM clocking up a lot of mileage on radweld Iam keeping an eye on how long it last,so I suppose there are situations and there are situations
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Old 26-01-2011, 10:55   #8
mushymarlin
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i had a head gasket replaced with an mls and got the inlet gasket and all others replaced aswell. even got metal dowels fitted. however i too had this leak between head and block. i found out that the new metal dowels need to be trimmed down a few mm??
as they are slightly to tall and stop the head/gasket/block making a proper seal
not sure if this might be the case here or not??
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Old 05-02-2011, 17:30   #9
gorgh
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OK, here is the thing with the car now:

I have covered 900miles so far from the hg change, and as i told, the engine is still lossing water slightly (in these 900 miles the water level in tank has dropped for 4cm or so).

I will for sure first try to go with inlet manifold gasket change and look for any other signs of leak - if this wont sort it out and the water will still "collect" on left hand side of the engine (standing in front of the car and looking at the engine) i am asking if it would make any "sense" to tighten the head screws for half of turn or so or would this be pointless???

Since i am highly doubtfull in HG fail, as the coolant started to appear on the car immediatelly after HG was changed i dont think it's the problem with HG!!!?

And also, i noticed the leak is caused only when engine is cold, once it's hot there is no sign of water on the block, only when it's cold??? Is this any sign of inlet manifold gasket or no?


The car runs totally fine, no mayo, everything perfect....

And one more question - can you name this part on the picture for me - i need to get the gasket for this "VVC motor mechanism" or what do you call this, since it was removed during service but got no new gasket in the set, and the old one is "leaking very little"...




Thanks!
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Old 05-02-2011, 20:12   #10
1955diesel
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VVC Hydraulic Control Unit.

VVC inlet manifolds are not prone to leaking coolant in the same way as the plastic manifolds. I think you have an external head gasket leak which seems to be becoming a common fault with unbranded gaskets right from new.

Do NOT attempt to tighten the head bolts. They are already tightened into yield and further tightening will just stretch them.
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Old 06-02-2011, 13:18   #11
gorgh
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Darn, i hoped for a different answer

OK, thanx for the answer, i will not touch the head bolts....

I will try first to make a pressure test on cold engine for a coolant leak if it will show any leak point and if not....then i will have no other option that to change the head gasket again.....

Can you please give me a good brand head gasket from ebay with link so it wont be bad choice again....

thank you for your answer!
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Old 06-02-2011, 15:14   #12
1955diesel
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You do have an option - use system sealer on it (K-Seal or similar). This is one of the few occasions where I think it could be used successfully.

If you prefer to change the gasket, use a Payen MLS.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rover-MGF-Land...#ht_2199wt_905
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Old 07-02-2011, 09:52   #13
gorgh
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OK great, thanx for the link, i will order it right away as long as it fits the 2002 zr160

as for the k-seal product...i have bought one, but i am little doubting in its usage....does putting that in harm the cooling system in any way? I would love to give it a try with that, but i would still need to be very caucious with water level checking....

kind regards,
Jure
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Old 07-02-2011, 12:15   #14
1955diesel
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This could easily become yet another of the dreaded K-Seal threads of which there must be dozens!

Strong views are held on both sides and will never be resolved, but my own experience says that it should not be used to fix a system full of rusty components, leaking water pump or head gasket with rubber bead failure. In general it should be reserved for emergencies to get you home or to try to save a car that would otherwise be scrapped. However, in a case where all the parts are in otherwise good condition, it will probably seal the leak and because the parts are falling to pieces, it should stay fixed for a reasonable length of time.
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Old 07-02-2011, 15:34   #15
ian6760
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I'd be inclined to check out the inlet manifold before putting the k-seal in. Now I'm no expert, but would say that although most people in the know say that your engine isn't prone to manifold gasket failure, it could still fail.

Just my 2p worth.

I had a manifold gasket failure and the water made its way around the head and looked like HGF, it also dripped out under timming belt gear and looked like the water pump may have gone. Thoughts of scapping the car came into my mind, and I ended up fixing for a fiver.


Good luck. Ian

Last edited by ian6760; 07-02-2011 at 15:40.
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Old 06-05-2011, 14:33   #16
macdonj
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Difference between HGF & IMG failure

I know this is an older topic but I replaced the HG with MGR MLS , oil rail, new bolts, IMG following the Haynes manual. It has worked fine for 18 months but there is now an external water water leak seen on the RHS under the exhaust manifold. This occurs when cooling down or cold and it drips onto the exhaust down tube. I can see the water staining under the HG to the RH side of the engine all the way round to the rear of the engine on the RH side. Does an external MLS HG leak only to the front of the engine and therefore means this is automatically an IMG failure?

This was not an after market gasket and it was put in the correct way with steel dowels and torqued according to the manual. The head was in good condition.
There are no other signs of HG failure (no over heating, no mayo, no oil in water etc). I am stuggling to see where the water is coming from owards the rear of the engine.

As a doomsday scenario, can I rule out a head crack?

Hope you can help me narrow this down before doing more work.

Thanks

John M
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Old 06-05-2011, 14:59   #17
Ricky146a
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First, your head crack question. These engines very rarely crack their heads and when they do it is usually after a catestrophic over-heating. You would have all sorts of other problems as well.
The head gasket can leak from anywhere - not just the front edge. It is just usually seen here because this is also where the water gallerys are closest and because of the incline of the engine.

You need to carefully clean the seam of the head and block and then check to find exactly where the water is first appearing - at least that is what I would do. As said in the other posts, it COULD be the IMG although this is probably unlikely.

I am sure other will have more advice.
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Old 06-05-2011, 15:16   #18
1955diesel
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The vast majority of head gasket external leaks seem to come from the exhaust side, but they can come from any area.
Leaks from the back of the engine tend to be due to inlet manifold gasket problems and repeat failures are are very common. Rimmers now do an uprated gasket made from Viton that is supposed to be better.
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Old 06-05-2011, 15:52   #19
macdonj
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Thanks very much. I will change the IMG for a viton one first.

JOhn M
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