MG-Rover.org Forums banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
cityrover
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

basically I need some help, recently moved and been getting to know my next door neighbour, 82 year old, fanatic about cars, has an XK6 which he built on his own from scratch, every single nut and bolt... however he bought an MG TF a few years ago, so he could potter around without having to use the Jag. He told me that he decided to recharge the battery during a winter 4 years and since then the car never started again. I went to have a look today and the problems are as follow:

1. battery was reading 12.1V so left it recharging over night - will have a look tomorrow.

2. when the battery is connected, hazard lights are continuously going off, driver side cooling fan near engine is always ON (blowing), remotes don't work and car won't start - this is why he has had the battery leads disconnected since.

3. tried to re sync remotes by unlocking the car with the key in the lock, and pressing padlock button 4 to 8 times but no luck - best I got was to disable hazard lights, then all lights in dash were on when tried to start but still wouldn't start - not even turn over. Not sure if the reason why I didn't have any luck was because the battery wasn't fully charged.

Any suggestions on what to do? Just really want to help the old man, as kids and grand kids don't seem to give a *****,... can't wait to get the motor going so he can take it for a spin!!! Thanks in advance.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
12,292 Posts
I would say that you need to sort NEW car battery first. If battery was not regularly charged, I doubt that it is of any use 4 years later.
Second quesrion is what kind of fob car use: square one with two buttons or oval one with logo in the middle?
 

·
Registered
mg_tf
Joined
·
62 Posts
Ditto Roverlike. Although battery is reading 12.1V it probably has no capacity so cannot deliver any charge during cranking. I suspect that if you take it off charge and measure voltage after a few hours the voltage will be well below 12v.

Start with a new battery and go from there.
Good luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
868 Posts
Hi all,

basically I need some help, recently moved and been getting to know my next door neighbour, 82 year old, fanatic about cars, has an XK6 which he built on his own from scratch, every single nut and bolt... however he bought an MG TF a few years ago, so he could potter around without having to use the Jag. He told me that he decided to recharge the battery during a winter 4 years and since then the car never started again. I went to have a look today and the problems are as follow:

1. battery was reading 12.1V so left it recharging over night - will have a look tomorrow.

2. when the battery is connected, hazard lights are continuously going off, driver side cooling fan near engine is always ON (blowing), remotes don't work and car won't start - this is why he has had the battery leads disconnected since.

3. tried to re sync remotes by unlocking the car with the key in the lock, and pressing padlock button 4 to 8 times but no luck - best I got was to disable hazard lights, then all lights in dash were on when tried to start but still wouldn't start - not even turn over. Not sure if the reason why I didn't have any luck was because the battery wasn't fully charged.

Any suggestions on what to do? Just really want to help the old man, as kids and grand kids don't seem to give a *****,... can't wait to get the motor going so he can take it for a spin!!! Thanks in advance.
1. New car battery
2. New batteries for the remotes

Test.

Follow-on.

3. Hazards went off because the alarm was activated accidently..?
4. Cooling fan constantly on could be due to a faulty temperature sensor in the engine bay - easy to replace and not expensive.
 

·
Registered
cityrover
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I would say that you need to sort NEW car battery first. If battery was not regularly charged, I doubt that it is of any use 4 years later.
Second quesrion is what kind of fob car use: square one with two buttons or oval one with logo in the middle?

It's the round one and got 2 new batteries for the remotes.

He's telling me that the battery was new 4 years ago and he always left it on the optimate, when I got it on fast charge was going to about 13.5V so I check this afternoon when I get back - otherwise I could use some jump leads from my motor just to prove it goes!!

Ditto Roverlike. Although battery is reading 12.1V it probably has no capacity so cannot deliver any charge during cranking. I suspect that if you take it off charge and measure voltage after a few hours the voltage will be well below 12v.

Start with a new battery and go from there.
Good luck

Thanks for that but see reply above.

1. New car battery
2. New batteries for the remotes

Test.

Follow-on.

3. Hazards went off because the alarm was activated accidently..?
4. Cooling fan constantly on could be due to a faulty temperature sensor in the engine bay - easy to replace and not expensive.

1. Left it on charge but if no good, will go down that route.
2. Already got them
3. Not sure - how do I disarm it? Or once the remotes have new batteries, I should be able to do the combination of unlocking car and pressing buttons between 4 to 8 times?
4. Saw a post about that yesterday - where is that sensor located? Any pics?



Thanks a lot gents!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,953 Posts
My alarme goes off when i replace the battery.

Was the battery still connected to the car when the battery charger was charging ?

If so, remove the battery leads and leave it for 30 minutes before reconnecting it. Give it a reboot.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
12,292 Posts
Just a note that round fob do not have sync process. So it is either working or not. That is Pektron system and it is sensitive if car battery is left to die slowly loosing its power.


With Pektron fob/alarm problems best solution is to contac Paul @ https://www.technozen-electronics.co.uk/
 

·
Registered
cityrover
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Just a note that round fob do not have sync process. So it is either working or not. That is Pektron system and it is sensitive if car battery is left to die slowly loosing its power.


With Pektron fob/alarm problems best solution is to contac Paul @ https://www.technozen-electronics.co.uk/
Update: battery is holding good charge after being charged overnight, manage to clear "alarm/immobiliser" fault with hazards going off and even the cooling fault has disappeared after trying to start it a few times.

Here's a quick video:

Just feels like it's still immobilised or no fuel is being supplied. What do you guys reckon?

I'll check his website in order to understand next steps. Thanks for the help so far lads!
 

·
Registered
cityrover
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Just a note that round fob do not have sync process. So it is either working or not. That is Pektron system and it is sensitive if car battery is left to die slowly loosing its power.


With Pektron fob/alarm problems best solution is to contac Paul @ https://www.technozen-electronics.co.uk/
UPDATE: battery is holding charge and managed to get rid of hazards lights fault and even the cooling fan is sorted after trying to start engine a few times!!


Engine turns over lovely but won't fire, either immobiliser is blocking it or no fuel is being supplied.

I'll do some reading regarding the Pektron fob and Paul at Technozen - I'm imagining this is a known issue that I may require some help!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,076 Posts
How much fuel has it got in it? After four years whatever is in thee will be petty stale, so add a couple of gallons of fresh on top of it.

Have you pulled the plugs to see if they are getting wet from fuel?

Have you tried pulling a plug lead off and checking for spark?
 

·
Registered
mg_tf
Joined
·
605 Posts
I have a 2004 115 with Pektron fob.
Absolutely every time the battery has been disconnected or flat she was a pain to restart.
Typically; reconnect battery, alarm sounds. cancel with fob. Try to start, and she'd turn over but not fire or would run for 2-3 seconds before cutting out.
There is no 'reset' procedure, so the solution was to disconnect the battery again (even for just a minute or so), reconnect and try again. Sometimes it would work second or third time, record was probably about a dozen tries.

Joe, are you actually a TF driver yourself (I see 6 posts)? When you turn the ignition key to position 2, you should hear the fuel pump prime itself behind you. Sounds like the car is cranking strongly, but no fuel.
There is a rubber covered fuel cut-off switch in the boot, left hand side. Should only trip after a bump, but worth a press anyway. Post 18 in this thread has a pic.

https://forums.mg-rover.org/mgf-mgtf-12/mgf-wont-start-can-anyone-help-please-398010/
 

·
Registered
'06 MG ZR +120 (HQM) '04 MG ZR 105 (IAB)
Joined
·
9,066 Posts
If the car battery has been left slowly discharging and left nearly flat for an extended period, that is something which can corrupt the memory of the Pektron SCU, among other things resulting in it 'forgetting' the code it shares with the engine ECU to disarm the immobiliser, so the immobiliser will not disarm. This can easily be fixed by a visit from someone with suitable diagnostic equipment to rematch the SCU and engine ECU (or he could have a word with Victor Wood on Spittlegate Level - they used to be an MG Rover dealership and were until recently an MG Motor dealer, so will have some idea of what is what and will be likely to have the right equipment).

Also, take care to disconnect the battery from the car when recharging it using a battery charger (especially if using 'fast charge') as it can often cause damage to the engine ECU.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
868 Posts
I have a 2004 115 with Pektron fob.
Absolutely every time the battery has been disconnected or flat she was a pain to restart.
Typically; reconnect battery, alarm sounds. cancel with fob. Try to start, and she'd turn over but not fire or would run for 2-3 seconds before cutting out.
There is no 'reset' procedure, so the solution was to disconnect the battery again (even for just a minute or so), reconnect and try again. Sometimes it would work second or third time, record was probably about a dozen tries.

Joe, are you actually a TF driver yourself (I see 6 posts)? When you turn the ignition key to position 2, you should hear the fuel pump prime itself behind you. Sounds like the car is cranking strongly, but no fuel.
There is a rubber covered fuel cut-off switch in the boot, left hand side. Should only trip after a bump, but worth a press anyway. Post 18 in this thread has a pic.

https://forums.mg-rover.org/mgf-mgtf-12/mgf-wont-start-can-anyone-help-please-398010/
Interestingly as I disconnect my battery everytime between drives as I hardly use the car, when I reconnect the battery, 2 seconds to reset, it fires up almost immediately and stays running. In my experience fuel that is less than 12 mths does not cause a problem. In this instance, over 12 months could be an issue.

Assuming you hear the fuel pump working, put in some new fuel (a couple of gallons) but if this does not work, take out one of the spark plugs to check the smell of fuel.

If no fuel pump sound, it could be 1. Faulty fuel pump relay or 2. Faulty fuel pump.

If no fuel smell it could be a blockage in the fuel line / pump after standing for so long.
 

·
Registered
mg_tf
Joined
·
27 Posts
I have had the same problems as Skellum (2004 MG TF with Pektron keyfob) inasmuch as a discharged battery could (not always though) cause problems when trying to start the car after the battery was recharged. That is, the alarm going off (indicator lights flashing too of course), not responding to the keyfob, the immobiliser kicking in etc. The solution was the same as for Skellum - disconnect and reconnect the battery multiple times until the ECU got a good 'boot up' when the battery was reconnected. It was random - Skellum reckoned a dozen reconnections of the battery as a record to get the ECU working again, but I've had two or three dozen attempts necessary. Didn't have to leave the battery terminal off for long between reconnection attempts though - a few seconds seemed fine.


Also agree with the idea to reset the crash fuel isolator switch in the boot.



The bottom line is the air/fuel/spark triangle though - an engine needs all three to start - the spark would be a good place to start by taking out a spark plug, laying it on a piece of earthed chassis and seeing if there is a spark. Then fuel - wet plugs? Air, hmmm, harder to test. I'm expecting that both engine air intakes cannot have been blocked ? (Mice, whatever).


One thing I will say - inputting the car security number through via the lock and key has never worked for me when the ECU had amnesia.
 

·
Registered
cityrover
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Apologies for the delays lads but been away for a long weekend.

Can you now operate door central locking? If you can fobs are working, if not then contact Paul.
According to the owner, central locking never worked - but answer to your question is that the central locking doesn't work.

How much fuel has it got in it? After four years whatever is in thee will be petty stale, so add a couple of gallons of fresh on top of it.

Have you pulled the plugs to see if they are getting wet from fuel?

Have you tried pulling a plug lead off and checking for spark?
It does have more than half a tank that's why I would still expect for it to at least try and splutter a bit. Getting the plugs off and checking for spark are next on the To Do list but not even sure how easy it's to remove them.

Is it easy to gain access?

I have a 2004 115 with Pektron fob.
Absolutely every time the battery has been disconnected or flat she was a pain to restart.
Typically; reconnect battery, alarm sounds. cancel with fob. Try to start, and she'd turn over but not fire or would run for 2-3 seconds before cutting out.
There is no 'reset' procedure, so the solution was to disconnect the battery again (even for just a minute or so), reconnect and try again. Sometimes it would work second or third time, record was probably about a dozen tries.

Joe, are you actually a TF driver yourself (I see 6 posts)? When you turn the ignition key to position 2, you should hear the fuel pump prime itself behind you. Sounds like the car is cranking strongly, but no fuel.
There is a rubber covered fuel cut-off switch in the boot, left hand side. Should only trip after a bump, but worth a press anyway. Post 18 in this thread has a pic.

https://forums.mg-rover.org/mgf-mgtf-12/mgf-wont-start-can-anyone-help-please-398010/
Thanks for that, will try over the next few days what you say - the only difference from yours is that the alarm doesn't actually go off, as the horn doesn't work. When I tried it, could hear the relay clicking but wouldn't go off. I can try and energise it with 12V but wanted to ask on hear and see what you reckon!!

I did try the fuel cut off switch in the boot and no luck. I'm not an MG owner, just trying to help out the old man as he loves motors and hasn't been able to drive his cars for 4 years!! He tried to give me a few pennies last time I saw him and told him my payment will be the smile on his face once we can get it going!!
 

·
Registered
cityrover
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
If the car battery has been left slowly discharging and left nearly flat for an extended period, that is something which can corrupt the memory of the Pektron SCU, among other things resulting in it 'forgetting' the code it shares with the engine ECU to disarm the immobiliser, so the immobiliser will not disarm. This can easily be fixed by a visit from someone with suitable diagnostic equipment to rematch the SCU and engine ECU (or he could have a word with Victor Wood on Spittlegate Level - they used to be an MG Rover dealership and were until recently an MG Motor dealer, so will have some idea of what is what and will be likely to have the right equipment).

Also, take care to disconnect the battery from the car when recharging it using a battery charger (especially if using 'fast charge') as it can often cause damage to the engine ECU.
Right o, clearly you know the area well - going see what Paul says and if still can't go nowhere with your help, will see if he wants to proceed that way! Thanks.

Interestingly as I disconnect my battery everytime between drives as I hardly use the car, when I reconnect the battery, 2 seconds to reset, it fires up almost immediately and stays running. In my experience fuel that is less than 12 mths does not cause a problem. In this instance, over 12 months could be an issue.

Assuming you hear the fuel pump working, put in some new fuel (a couple of gallons) but if this does not work, take out one of the spark plugs to check the smell of fuel.

If no fuel pump sound, it could be 1. Faulty fuel pump relay or 2. Faulty fuel pump.

If no fuel smell it could be a blockage in the fuel line / pump after standing for so long.
I'm not familiar with this cars and not sure how loud the fuel pump is but will find the relay and see if I can hear/feel it clicking. Personally I don't believe the pump was priming so still think something is wrong with the immobiliser.

Will try again over the next few days.
 

·
Registered
cityrover
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
I have had the same problems as Skellum (2004 MG TF with Pektron keyfob) inasmuch as a discharged battery could (not always though) cause problems when trying to start the car after the battery was recharged. That is, the alarm going off (indicator lights flashing too of course), not responding to the keyfob, the immobiliser kicking in etc. The solution was the same as for Skellum - disconnect and reconnect the battery multiple times until the ECU got a good 'boot up' when the battery was reconnected. It was random - Skellum reckoned a dozen reconnections of the battery as a record to get the ECU working again, but I've had two or three dozen attempts necessary. Didn't have to leave the battery terminal off for long between reconnection attempts though - a few seconds seemed fine.


Also agree with the idea to reset the crash fuel isolator switch in the boot.



The bottom line is the air/fuel/spark triangle though - an engine needs all three to start - the spark would be a good place to start by taking out a spark plug, laying it on a piece of earthed chassis and seeing if there is a spark. Then fuel - wet plugs? Air, hmmm, harder to test. I'm expecting that both engine air intakes cannot have been blocked ? (Mice, whatever).


One thing I will say - inputting the car security number through via the lock and key has never worked for me when the ECU had amnesia.
Really appreciate your post, will have a few goes and hoping it works!! Just want the bloody thing running.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top