MG-Rover.org Forums banner

21 - 40 of 49 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,156 Posts
As I said before, Honda were 1-2 before Silverstone. Says it all.
If MG had been dominating, their boost would of been reduced. Simple.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
54,941 Posts
Not quite correct in what Jason has said there.

The boost doesn't get decreased past the baseline, however, if in previous races it was increased it can be decreased, to the point of the baseline. So it can get decreased, but there is a lower limit as he says.

I believe this is what happened to the Honda's.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
54,941 Posts
As I said before, Honda were 1-2 before Silverstone. Says it all.
If MG had been dominating, their boost would of been reduced. Simple.
Yep, I'd prefer it to be set at the beginning of the year and left there though. Whoever does the better all round job gets the faster car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,968 Posts
All clear now ?

Ding ding indeed!
As per usual it seems that JP posts only what he thinks makes himself and the team look good, not saying JP and MJ can't drive a good race from the back because they can and have done with previous cars in the past, but then so have MN and GS and I think AJ.

The speed traps are only half the story but since JP seems to like to use race 2's data, a race in which he retired from with engine issues and not all that safely either as an example here are the traps from qualifying, race 1 and 3.





Full data available from: http://www.tsl-timing.com/
 

·
Premium Member
mg_zt_t
Joined
·
21,895 Posts
Discussion Starter #25
As per usual it seems that JP posts only what he thinks makes himself and the team look good, not saying JP and MJ can't drive a good race from the back because they can and have done with previous cars in the past, but then so have MN and GS and I think AJ.

The speed traps are only half the story but since JP seems to like to use race 2's data, a race in which he retired from with engine issues and not all that safely either as an example here are the traps from qualifying, race 1 and 3.

Full data available from: http://www.tsl-timing.com/
What those surprisingly show is that there were a considerable number of other cars with much higher speed trap readings than the MGs. Does that mean MGs efforts are all the more impressive or not?

I would think that those timings from other races earlier in the season would show further variation as adjustments were made in line with the rules set down and agreed by the teams and drivers from the outset.

Hondas use their own engines whilst many of the other cars, including the MGs use the NGTC spec ones. Which of those would be likely to result in a distinct a car advantage? Had one team been clearly superior out of the box from race one and won everything, the sport would become a bore-fest except for the fan boys of one marque or the other always out in front.

I do not take BTCC seriously now as I once did and view it as entertainment rather than a fine automotive art form. Having watched touring cars and attended meetings from as long ago as the 1960s when true F1 greats like Clark and Hill participated, now that really was something else and superb stuff.

The last time I saw an F1 Champion in a Touring Car was Nigel Mansell... he was more than a tad useful and truly spectacular much to the chagrin of some of the far more experienced TC regulars who in post race interviews showed evidence of pro-jealousy.... poor form in and out of the car is nothing new in Motor Sport.
.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,387 Posts
What those surprisingly show is that there were a considerable number of other cars with much higher speed trap readings than the MGs. Does that mean MGs efforts are all the more impressive or not?
I guess it means that like the Hondas, the MGs don't have any boost above base level. I guess the only time they did was when Neate was doing OK, which also happened to be after Plato had been doing poorly for a few races. The better Plato does, the more Neate gets punished!

So how was Plato able to get from 20th to 2nd in just half the race with less turbo boost than almost everyone else and without any help from the safety car :confused:
 

·
Registered
mg_zr
Joined
·
671 Posts
I guess it means that like the Hondas, the MGs don't have any boost above base level. I guess the only time they did was when Neate was doing OK, which also happened to be after Plato had been doing poorly for a few races. The better Plato does, the more Neate gets punished!

So how was Plato able to get from 20th to 2nd in just half the race with less turbo boost than almost everyone else and without any help from the safety car :confused:
from what I saw of the races and what Plato said after race 3 it isn't just about boost etc, the car chassis has a lot to do with it, did you actually pay any attention to the skill JP had whilst cornering etc, I put that down to a superior chassis over boost tbh I also noticed a lot of rear wheels lifting cornering on the honda's and the ford whereas the MG was pretty flat through all of the racing, again that is chassis not boost so all these people moaning about boost please remember there is more to a btcc race than the amount of boost an engine has :)
 

·
Premium Member
mg_zt_t
Joined
·
21,895 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
from what I saw of the races and what Plato said after race 3 it isn't just about boost etc, the car chassis has a lot to do with it, did you actually pay any attention to the skill JP had whilst cornering etc, I put that down to a superior chassis over boost tbh I also noticed a lot of rear wheels lifting cornering on the honda's and the ford whereas the MG was pretty flat through all of the racing, again that is chassis not boost so all these people moaning about boost please remember there is more to a btcc race than the amount of boost an engine has :)
Well spotted Troxie. I'm obviously not the only one who noticed that. The handling of the MG was impressive at Silverstone, particularly in Race 3. Never seen it so impressive in previous rounds where Plato had to work really hard to make progress.

In one of the previous races Plato held up a train of cars until punted off. Plato holding things up is not a common thing to observe in BTCC ... :)
 

·
Registered
mg_zr
Joined
·
671 Posts
yeah he mentioned in his interview that he has had a lot of trouble all season with the back end being erratic but they now have it sorted out, as is obvious in Race 3 of silverstone lol :)

Edit: just wish that I wasnt moving house on the weekend of Brands hatch as I would have loved to be there to see how he gets on in the final 3 rounds :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,387 Posts
did you actually pay any attention to the skill JP had whilst cornering etc... :)
Yes I did notice his skill at producing a gentle tap on the back bumper of various cars, just enough to put them off line but not off the track, while he drove on past and on to the next victim :D
 

·
Registered
mg_zr
Joined
·
671 Posts
Yes I did notice his skill at producing a gentle tap on the back bumper of various cars, just enough to put them off line but not off the track, while he drove on past and on to the next victim :D
lol well thats the BTCC for you lol :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,968 Posts
What those surprisingly show is that there were a considerable number of other cars with much higher speed trap readings than the MGs. Does that mean MGs efforts are all the more impressive or not?

I would think that those timings from other races earlier in the season would show further variation as adjustments were made in line with the rules set down and agreed by the teams and drivers from the outset.

Hondas use their own engines whilst many of the other cars, including the MGs use the NGTC spec ones. Which of those would be likely to result in a distinct a car advantage? Had one team been clearly superior out of the box from race one and won everything, the sport would become a bore-fest except for the fan boys of one marque or the other always out in front.

I do not take BTCC seriously now as I once did and view it as entertainment rather than a fine automotive art form. Having watched touring cars and attended meetings from as long ago as the 1960s when true F1 greats like Clark and Hill participated, now that really was something else and superb stuff.

The last time I saw an F1 Champion in a Touring Car was Nigel Mansell... he was more than a tad useful and truly spectacular much to the chagrin of some of the far more experienced TC regulars who in post race interviews showed evidence of pro-jealousy.... poor form in and out of the car is nothing new in Motor Sport.
.
As I said it's not the full story most of those cars hitting their peak are S2000/NGTC hybrids which use more tyres and brakes and fall away during the race.

If you build the best car and engine and have the best package overall within the rules then you should see the benefits. There is success ballast and race 3 with the reverse grid for equalisation.

I suppose if I view BTCC as I do pro wrestling in that it has a predetermined outcome for the most part then it all makes sense. ;)

And as I was saying the MG6 doesn't have the highest speed, those stats show that...
Still faster than all the Honda's even carrying success ballast.

I guess it means that like the Hondas, the MGs don't have any boost above base level. I guess the only time they did was when Neate was doing OK, which also happened to be after Plato had been doing poorly for a few races. The better Plato does, the more Neate gets punished!

So how was Plato able to get from 20th to 2nd in just half the race with less turbo boost than almost everyone else and without any help from the safety car :confused:
Typical Plato push/punt to past and I believe MG were running the second lowest boost level next to Honda.

from what I saw of the races and what Plato said after race 3 it isn't just about boost etc, the car chassis has a lot to do with it, did you actually pay any attention to the skill JP had whilst cornering etc, I put that down to a superior chassis over boost tbh I also noticed a lot of rear wheels lifting cornering on the honda's and the ford whereas the MG was pretty flat through all of the racing, again that is chassis not boost so all these people moaning about boost please remember there is more to a btcc race than the amount of boost an engine has :)
Well said. :)

The thing is though the whole boost debate brings up the question was it the driver or boost and like I said it just isn't right when a car carrying max (45kg) success ballast can still top the time sheet and end up on the podium, I'm talking about MJ and the NGTC Focus.

It wouldn't surprise me if Honda UK pulled factory backing and funnily enough the Honda Japan backed Honda Team JAS Civic S2000 TC makes it's debut at the WTCC at Suzuka the same weekend as Brands.
 

·
Registered
cityrover
Joined
·
7,559 Posts
End of the day who gives a **** if Honda are struggling? They won it last year so it would be boring if they win it again just like F1 is when someone dominates. And after Steve Neal's comments on the Marshall they don't deserve to win! The final race is going to be more exciting with the top 3 being so close, and if Plato doesn't win then I hope Sheddon does as Matt Squeal won it last year. And I think Sheddon will just about win it, Plato may say it has the best chassis but that is untrue as at Rockingham it was really poor in the wet. The Honda is really good in the wet and better on tighter tracks due to it being shorter.
 

·
Premium Member
mg_zt_t
Joined
·
21,895 Posts
Discussion Starter #35
End of the day who gives a **** if Honda are struggling? They won it last year so it would be boring if they win it again just like F1 is when someone dominates. And after Steve Neal's comments on the Marshall they don't deserve to win! The final race is going to be more exciting with the top 3 being so close, and if Plato doesn't win then I hope Sheddon does as Matt Squeal won it last year. And I think Sheddon will just about win it, Plato may say it has the best chassis but that is untrue as at Rockingham it was really poor in the wet. The Honda is really good in the wet and better on tighter tracks due to it being shorter.
Hey, like your style Steven. Such admirable passion.

No fan-boy me but, have to admit, "Matt Squeal" ... :) .... has been my least favourite BTCC driver since the dawn of time. Far too many steward assists and blind eye turning for my liking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,968 Posts
End of the day who gives a **** if Honda are struggling? They won it last year so it would be boring if they win it again just like F1 is when someone dominates. And after Steve Neal's comments on the Marshall they don't deserve to win! The final race is going to be more exciting with the top 3 being so close, and if Plato doesn't win then I hope Sheddon does as Matt Squeal won it last year. And I think Sheddon will just about win it, Plato may say it has the best chassis but that is untrue as at Rockingham it was really poor in the wet. The Honda is really good in the wet and better on tighter tracks due to it being shorter.
Erm I do. :lol:

After the drives at Rockingham and Silverstone Shedden had better win, I don't think I could stand another year with either Plato or Neal as champ.

As I said Steve Neal's comments were bang out of order.

Hey, like your style Steven. Such admirable passion.

No fan-boy me but, have to admit, "Matt Squeal" ... :) .... has been my least favourite BTCC driver since the dawn of time. Far too many steward assists and blind eye turning for my liking.
Replace Matt Squeal with punt/push to pass JP and that would be my view. :)
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
54,941 Posts
Not bothered about who is struggling or not. I just believe they should set the rules at the beginning and then stick with them.

If Honda have done a better job with the engine, but MG have the better chassis then they will out do each other at different types of circuits and be working to close the gap on the others.

That way the team that has done the best job over the season wins. Simple really and the basis on which motorsport is supposed to be run.
 

·
Premium Member
mg_zt_t
Joined
·
21,895 Posts
Discussion Starter #38
Not bothered about who is struggling or not. I just believe they should set the rules at the beginning and then stick with them.

If Honda have done a better job with the engine, but MG have the better chassis then they will out do each other at different types of circuits and be working to close the gap on the others.

That way the team that has done the best job over the season wins. Simple really and the basis on which motorsport is supposed to be run.
Actually, the team with access to best finances invariably succeeds whilst better teams, without those levels of finances, 'fail'. So rules have been complied to try and level the playing fields... very difficult. Look at F1. Only so many gearboxes and engines allowed in F1 for example whereas in the past new ones for every race for those who could afford it.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
54,941 Posts
Cost restrictions are fair enough and entirely different subject to what I have posted.

Limiting the number of engines is fine, but set the parameters at the start of the year and leave them alone. As in F1 as you have quoted that one. The rules don't change unless someone tries to bend them and clarification is required.
 

·
Premium Member
mg_zt_t
Joined
·
21,895 Posts
Discussion Starter #40
.
Cost restrictions are fair enough and entirely different subject to what I have posted.

Limiting the number of engines is fine, but set the parameters at the start of the year and leave them alone. As in F1 as you have quoted that one. The rules don't change unless someone tries to bend them and clarification is required.
.
.
Not bothered about who is struggling or not. I just believe they should set the rules at the beginning and then stick with them.
.
I believe that's what they've done.

The rules and the various flexible aspects were agreed by the TC teams from the outset. The variations in boost, weights, warts and all. Implemented during the season in accordance with those agreed parameters, many now see them as unfair but, they were agreed from the outset.
 
21 - 40 of 49 Posts
Top